Is an older Porsche 911 really "all that"?

Very good! Maybe I could get a tag frame that says "my other car is a Ferrari" for my 993! (like the airplane guys used to do so as to legitimize their airport beaters) The 12 cylinders are actually driving quite a little better than the flat 6 just now, as the little guy is in need of an air conditioning evaporator coil.

I have a serious comment here, and I hope it does not sound "antiloyal to Ferrari":

I personally do not think I could actually drive a Testarossa on a daily basis. The whole experience is just too intense for everyday.

I also think that a certain diversity is essential for a well-balanced car collection. As posted before, I keep a ZR1, a Z06, a Miata, and a 993 in addition to the Testarossa. Most days, the 993 is the way to go. The ZR1 seems to get less use now than the Testarossa, but both are in approximately the "once every 10 days or so" class. And I have had ZR1 many years, but the TR only 8 months now.

It is a great pleasure to feel the difference in character in these three; front-engine, mid-engine, rear-engine - and many other profound differences in the driving experience. Just always driving one would be like eating lobster, or maybe tenderloin steak, every day for the rest of your life without any hope of change.

Now, if you expand that notion of diversity to the question of all-out engine power, or turbo vs. non-turbo -- isn't it obvious that a range of good driving experiences is preferable to just saying "a 930 has more power, so it is the only thing worth having"? I will probably have a 993TT some day, just to experience it, but it is not the end-all of fun driving in a Porsche to me.

TSpringer has me kind of daydreaming for a car like my first ever Porsche - a 1969 911T Targa, or maybe my 1972 coupe.

 

I strongly disagree and the fact that I frequently leave turbos vanishing the the mirror is all the proof I need.

The later model cars including the turbos are HEAVY. A 3000lb car vs a 2100lb car is a huge deficit to make up and just throwing horsepower at the problem is no solution. I dont care what you do to a turbo you will never get the throttle response and flexibility you can get with a mechanically injected NA Porsche flat 6.

I have $30K in my car. No turbo porsche at that price point will come close (with the exception of some of the hotrod 944 turbo track cars out there).

Another thing about the turbos: if your talking about any of them prior to 1989 budget $12K+ for a transaxle replacement. The 4 speed is horrid. No way to keep it on the power band and when you drop below 3500rpm its a dog.

The point here is honestly somewhat moot. To compare an early lightweight tweaked "R-Gruppe" type 911 to a later 911 Turbo, even one that is tricked out, is totally apples and oranges. The former is a barely disguised race car for the street, the later is a much heavier high powered GT car. Both are great at what they do.



Terry

 

terry,

i very respectfully disagree to a large extent...

having owned many 911's including a real rs touring back in 1987, the 930 is not at a disadvantage as the suspension, brakes, and contact patch easily make up for the handling of the lighter package and the 73 s made 190hp where as the 930 made 310hp w/o a cat converter.

the throttle response of a kuglefischer injection car is intoxicating but the push of a 930 under boost leaves a lightweight s for dead!

now let's agree that at lime rock where a turbo has no room to flex its' muscle, the little s may do well in turning a similar lap time as a 930. now at a track like watkins or road a (btw...i could quite easily turn 1:31 and 32's on the old "dip" course w/ only comp t/a r-1's) where the turbo can run...like driven cars (let's say a 73 s and a 87 930) would see a 930 laying waste to a 73 s. please understand that i say this w/ my most loved car ever was my petrol blue w/ lipstick 73 s that was lowered w/ pirelli p-7's.

now that said, there are very few "stock" 930's left on the planet and my car inparticular makes better than 460 hp @ .8 bar. now many of us know that that @ 1.0-1.2 bar, my car will produce hp similar to that of the early 935's that were winning all the imsa and fia sportscar races around the world...a modded 930 is a lot of car!!!!

w/ respect to the gear box (4 sp), it is often out of the power range and seemingly always spaced wrong w/ stock 930 hp. now a big hp car is very well matched to the 4 sp box w/ first and second gear actually usable and 4th gear being able to turn 192 mph at redline!

i hope my response is respectful as I am a (seemingly) old scca, and imsa licensed but frustrated racer that loves aircooled porsches.

best,

pcb

 

My dad traded in his '02 C2 Cab for an '05 TT Cab, and I will admit I love the TT. However, he sold his C2 to a friend of his who allowed me to drive the car again recently. While I only drove the car around the neighborhood, the car just felt so different to drive. It actually felt a lot better in so many ways to the point that, now that I am used to the 'novelty' of the extra speed produced by 0.8bar of boost, I really missed the C2. It was just more... fun.

What's even more astounding is the fact that I am only 17- you would expect someone of my age to want the faster of the two cars almost regardless. The C2 was just THAT much better to drive!

 

well that might be a first...a slab side water pumper is a better drive than a water pumper tt. interesting...i think.

 

I really do not know which one is more fun the 160HP 67 911s or the 550HP 2006 RT-32 RUF turbo. Yes they are "all that". That being said so is Ferrari.
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Your picture says it all.

Lucy Liu vx. Monica Lewinsky.

And I think we all know who is who.

 

lol...too funny james.

 

Very Good!

 

Congratulations. At least you got one modern enough that you don't have to worry about the Weber carbs and that hand throttle.

 

desmo...when you figure out the 3 lever system, please let me know how it works. i have had a 911 or 930 in my garage since 1989 and i still don't understand the hvac system!

that is a very nice looking car. i suspect that when yoy are done buffing and touching up the paint she will be a real movie star!!consider putting on a clear bra when you are finished w/ the detailing as there are some obvios target areas where road debris will cause chipping.

enjoy your carrera!!

best,

pcb

 

desmo,

i just saw that you are in charlotte...i am too this week. i have my 930 turbo here at my charlotte house. if you get up by lake norman, i would love to see your carrera.

btw, you know own the effective platform for what is the winningest sportscar in racing history...the carrera is pretty close to perfect on nearly all categories (except hvac...as you have noticed already). if you are so inclined, start looking at the classifieds on pelican parts and find a borla or billy boat exhaust system and cat by-pass tube. the sound will have you reving to 6400 rpm at each upshift...the sound is THAT cool!!

and last, i think you will enjoy paying for your first valve adjustment! you will laugh at the $500 service when you compare it to any service that is ferrari!!!!

have fun!!!!

pcb

 

Could not agree more, I have owned 39 Porsches, my current 997S supercharged car puts out well over 500hp did the 1/4 in 11.6 on street tires, is more fun than any of my Ferrari's (including my 430) ever was. I will admit though that there is little left in the car that is stock.

QUOTE=ferraripete;137137220]yes they are all that! i have owned a bunch of masers, porsches, bimmers, alfas, ferraris...u name it. if you are interested in seeing for yourself if porsches are all that, you are welcome to come up to lake norman to ride in or drive mine. not sure what ferrari u drive but i suppose it does not matter...bring a change of underwear as my 500 hp 930 is a bit of a bully!!!!!

p.m. me if interested...always love to help convert folks to porsche!!!!

best

pcb[/QUOTE]

 

What he said - and be sure to have the cam chain tensioners looked over.

 

Great looking cab, looks like its Garnetred too!

I would suggest you drain the trans fluid and switch to Swepco for smoother shifting. My 915 has a few mods to it and I went from redline to swepco and I have been told it shifts just as quickly/crisply as a G50.

 

Ooohh! Really pretty. Congrats, color looks great on it.

 

Wow! What a great comparison shot

 

A lot of people here are talking about old light weight Porsche's and new heavy Porsche's,
How about a new light weight (2000 LBS) car? Safety, reliability, light, agile, and gorgeous.
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Then this wouldn't be Porsche lovers forum and we'd be going and forth as to why the older Loti are "all that" (a thread that I would definitely enjoy).

 

Desmomini, congrats on your '85. Your's were some of the best of the breed, imo. They wear like old leather jackets. Just a great all around sports car, and your's looks great.

Oh yeah...those heat levers? I'm unconvinced that Porsche who designed them even knows how they work.

 

Those levers don't do anything...the old Porsche's only give heat through the HVAC...even when the AC is on.

Great car....love all classic air cooled 911's. Classic 911's are all that and a bag of chips....they aren't the fastest, nor the cheapest....but they just make you feel right. Sounds, smell, and sight of these cars are perfect.

 

desmomini! I loved my 84 EuroCab for many years in Carmel. Warm sunny fall (week)days, top down, cruising down Hwy. 1 to the Nepenthe Inn; foggy sunday mornings out the back of Carmel Valley; as Frank said, 'those were the days, my friend'......

Enjoy yours!
Tritone
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I am surprised to hear so many of you haven't found the lever heating "system" effective in the older 911's. I am always surprised they work as well as they do. I guess I will count myself lucky.

 

It might depend on when in 85 the car was produced, it might be Ruby red. My uncle changed the color he ordered on his 85, he heard Ruby Red was being discontinued and being replaced by Garnet Red. I like both colors. There are subtle differences and I have trouble telling the two colors apart from a photo.

Best regards,
Dino

P.S. Desmo, Congrats! the 3.2's are great cars. You will really enjoy it.