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Is F1 falling apart?

Discussion in 'F1' started by TheMayor, May 29, 2020.

  1. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Shame she started drawing all over herself.
     
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  2. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    It's ok just dont look at the mantlepieceo_O
     
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  3. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.planetf1.com/news/cyril-abiteboul-engines-battlefield/
    Co exist with F-E !

    There is probably more work to be done on the power unit side,” the Renault F1 managing director told Autosport.

    “We’ve contained the arms race on power unit development a bit by limiting the number of new homologations per year, and by limiting further the number of dyno hours.

    “It’s good, but it’s still bloody expensive to maintain and operate these engines.

    “The next step is to have a good look at what can be done in order to make sure that the next generation of power unit is a more economic sell.”

    But it is not just the cost of the engines that Formula 1 has to consider.

    Abiteboul says the sport also needs to decide what technology it wants to embrace given that the world is heading more and more towards electric cars.

    “We’re starting to think about what we’d like at least in terms of objectives for the sport,” he added.

    “I’ve mentioned one as probably the most important, the economical sustainability of the next power unit programme, because clearly the current one is very difficult.

    “The next thing we need to think about is the technology involved.

    “We see the pace at which electrification is gaining everywhere around the world, and therefore we need to think very hard about what that means for F1, what that means in the context of racing, what that means in the context of some parallel co-existence with Formula E.
     
  4. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sounds to me somehwere in his daily ramblings about F1, there is an answer to his troubles: **** off to Formula E!
     
  5. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Renault is more in search of identity than F1.
     
  6. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    Renault will be selling nothing but retro t-shirts in 5 years
     
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  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,656
    I have an idea::

    Let the current engine formula continue, but like in the late 1970s and 1980s allow another specification--this time allow a car of any weight be electrically powered with the same restriction as the F1 cars, they have to finish on the gasoline/battery-charge they started.

    My guess is that it will take 9 decades before batteries are equivalent to gasoline, if ever.
     
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  8. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    Sure, but as I said: rarely.

    Not so much pioneering tech over 70 years.


    The 312 T was a good design and actually influenced my purchase of a Mondial T street car years later. Very well balanced.

    I think Ferrari don't mind waiting a while to see if others either gain or fail with a pioneering bit of new kit.
     
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  9. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    F1 and Renault. I have more faith in Renault. F1 has pushed off finding a new PU or Formula for now. We do not hear at all what they are thinking. The link above with Renault stating F1 might need to co-exist with F-E. F1 and its circles of support know this is coming. The vaunted auto makers are moving that way in total. There is not going to be much choice. Adapt and survive F1 - other options that make it viable? As long as F1 courts auto makers they will have little choice as 'relevance' is the rule no?
     
  10. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I don't think the automotive world will switch completely to electric power.
    Maybe the electric car will capture up to 25% of the worldwide market, if that, but never replace the ICE completely.
    Electric motion will never be as flexible and practical as the ICE, in terms of autonomy and ease of replenishing energy.
    In some countries, electric cars will be no-existent outside large metropoles.
    But to capture that 25% market to satisfy government quotas (they all speak against pollution, even in China), manufacturers have to push electric power.
    If the FIA resists that push, it may lose not only constructors participation in F1, but also governments benevolence.
     
  11. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Yes this movement will take time. F1 has no life without makers. Small budgets now that are only sure to increase again. Aston is going electric. Renault and VW etc etc. For F1 to survive and be strong major producers are needed. The next PU will need to be less expensive but 'relevant' I think. Hybrid will continue then after hybrid..........??
     
  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    I think that, for the average 1st world country, the electric car can end up over 75% market share (2040s.)
    About the only time one needs more than 300 mile range is long trips, and the "second" car can be used for that while one EV or the other EV is used for everyday stuff.

    Many people in large 1st world cities today don't even have a car, especially those with working subway/train/tram systems.
    And then the is Uber/Lyft/... where one can get from point A to point B several times a day, for less cost structure than owning a car.
    Finally there is the ongoing "quest for the last mile" motorizes bicycles, scooters, skateboards,...

    But we are also witnessing the fact that up to 70% of workers don't need to commute to get their jobs done (largely driven by Covid19.)
    Education is not far behind in the ability to be educated without classroom presence...lab's may be a different thing.....

    I think the world is changing at a more rapid pace right now than I have witnessed in my sentient life (1953).
     
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  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    The big brake to electric car expansion is the lack of infrastructure to recharge them, even in the so-called "1st world".
    In many cities, people don't have individual garages, and there is simply not enough recharging points in the streets.
    I know an electric car enthusiast in London who gave up and sold his for that reason.
    He used to roam the streets to find a charging point, and some evenings he couldn't, so was unable to use his car the next day.
     
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  14. furmano

    furmano F1 World Champ
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    Racing is a balance between serving the fans and making the formula workable so teams can deliver the product. And part of that is catering to large corporations who have a massive constituent base.

    But it can't just be about relating racing technology to production product, there has to be some level of disconnect between the two.

    And technology for it's own sake is not enough, the experience with active suspension showed us that. If we really want F1 to relate to the future of the automobile, autonomy would be introduced.

    F1 should be about automobile technology but not go too far outside the realm of performance. Everything else is secondary and should be considered as such. Doesn't mean those other things are not a factor, they just have to be balanced against the primary thing.

    -F
     
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  15. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Racing is about human competition but that is being re-defined as well. With autonomous combat/drone /robotic and transport systems, and console or E-sports the movement out of the cockpit will influence that in the cockpit. They are now related to me. We may have both as entertainment. Autonomy is here to stay in many fields for the efficiency it brings. Certainly not perfect. The question is how human operated systems will evolve in the face of the pressing movement of autonomy.

    F1 should state that it is human driven vehicle competition and market itself based on that skill being displayed. That is the first rule of its existence. Push that, market that and have the powers who own the sport do the same. The display should focus on the lack of automation, the human element bringing a bit more unpredictability to the game. Manual gearbox, minimal communication from pit to car, drive to the limit for all systems, tires, fuel etc with pitstop as needed for all things not mandatory. Team makes the call. No strategy group in the factory - the control at the circuit. in the face of progress one needs that retro movement to gain a value for the series. We see this all the time in the design world. New but really based on old. F1 should consider this. The PU being the major question. Modern but simple with few controls and all of those control elements rest with the driver.
     
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  16. Isobel

    Isobel F1 Veteran
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    Anything that increases DNFs or unpredictability would be welcome.
     
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  17. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Absolutely !!

    I hate the word ''relevance'' in F1 terms. If it's supposed to be so relevant, why doesn't F1 consist of grey diesel hatchbacks? Why do they need to go faster than 70mph?

    F1 is entertainment and sport. Or supposed to be at least.
     
  18. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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    And I was wondering why I was thinking of Bonnie Rotten.
     
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  19. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    In order to be as environmentally friendly as possible, the 2021 cars will have unlimited aerodynamic freedom, however instead of engines of any sort, four mechanics will be designated to push the cars around the track.
     
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  20. WilyB

    WilyB Formula 3
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    Introducing our new 2020 livery. A pledge to improve the diversity of our team and our sport, and a signal of the Team’s commitment to fighting racism and discrimination in all its forms.
     
  21. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    only thing that comforts me is what happened to them last time they had another nonsensical change of livery
     
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  22. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    ....another pathetic attempt to make F1 “relevant.”
     
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  23. rampante550

    rampante550 Karting
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    Lost interest after Schumacher, but watched one race in the last 10 years and turned it off after the nauseous idea being pushed that one driver should hang back and let his teammate win. Outside that, it started to feel too sterile, too safe, and shrinking engines took away the fun. Felt like I blinked and we went from 10 to 8 to 6. Never thought I'd say it, but I think I'd rather watch rally racing or even a local dirt track race. Too bad there'll never be a reset just a managed decline to electric.
     
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  24. 375+

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