Is Ferrari in breach of the 'testing ban'?

No

 

Kinda wish they were , but no.

 

Depends really. I'd need a lot more information before I gave an answer. The real question is how the KERS is being tested. Just on a test bed or on an actual formula car? And if on a car well then, how close is it to the car the system will be running on? Running a car that's almost completely identical to the Ferrari and simply slapping a Peugeot badge on it does not IMO get you around the test ban.

Like I said, I need more information before I can give a real answer. What you've given certainly isn't enough.

 

Le Mans cars are SO different to F1 cars, it would be a lot of wasted time and resources ...

 

Its completely legal. Its bending the rules silly but its completely legal.

 

The question may be what restrictions the various vendors and subcontractors have under the rules. Grey areas are there to be exploited.

 

Thankfully that decision is made by those above my pay-grade.
The FIA's authority doesn't extend to contractors so I don't know how they'd enforce such restrictions other than limiting team expenditures (which they already do).

 

OK, first we can never take any statement any of the teams make seriously when the statement deals with anything relevant. They all lie. Even (especially) Ferrari. If we take this statement on its own, and say for the sake of argument, that Peugeot is running the Ferrari system on a car, not a joint Peugeot/Ferrari system then I'd say YES Ferrari are breaking a test ban. We're not talking about running it on a test bed. We're talking about a system designed by Ferrari that is not similar to Peugeot or shares any parts with the Peugeot system being run on a track then yes, it's (in my mind) not legal. Who cares if the test mule isn't similar in looks or specification to the Ferrari F1 car? The test mules the teams are running now, last years cars, are not legal to be run in 2009 and are subject to the test band rules. Just because the mule's got fenders, a roof and different engine and Peugeot badge if the system they're testing is A FERRARI SYSTEM separate to the one they're running then yes it should be governed by the ban as the other test mules are.

As I'd said in the "LM stirring the pot" thread he's the most Machiavellian man on the grid. I see no issue for him to make a rule only to break it. I'm sure if he does his psyche will have no problem justifying it. O.J. Simpson has had no issues that I can see pleading his innocence. People can justify all sorts of stuff within their own mind and do so every day.



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I have no problems with this at all. This has been the way business has been done for decades within F1. Teams will have always worked with outside vendors to develop their systems. Take a look at brake systems. Teams don't design those on their own. Not even Ferrari. Exhaust systems? Nope, most don't fabricate those in house either. Don't forget McLaren who introduced the carbon fiber tub to F1 back in the 80s, one of the most important technological advancements in F1 history did so with the help of Hercules an aerospace company. They helped design the tub and it was in their autoclave that the first tubs were produced. You can even see Hercules livery on the tubs under the bodywork of those cars. These associations not only are cost effective but also help accelerate the advancement with the F1 field as they allow the teams to tap directly into someone else’s expertise. That reduces their learning curve and cost.

Now if Ferrari were to purchase Peugeot expertise and utilize Peugeot parts or full system then we get in to a grey area as far as the testing ban. As if Peugeot were testing a system that was to be used on both their car and the Ferrari F1 then it could be argued that Peugeot is doing their testing and Ferrari is simply buying the components. Ok, that sounds like a way around the ban. But, what if Ferrari personnel are present at the test and giving input? Well, now we're back into that grey area as then the system is being designed with Ferrari input at the track. So, maybe you apply 50% of the mileage towards Ferrari's test mileage? Maybe less depending on their input? But, who decides how much input they're really giving? But, even if they only apply 50% that’s a big advantage.

I'd still like more information though.

 

I figured as much. No worries. I like to debate the points not the individual anyway. Although I'll admit sometimes it's a little tough.

 

Mclaren are bending the rules as often as Ferrari do, it just doesnt get covered as much. If you confront a Mclaren fan with it they constantly throw things back at you like 'if you'd just stop wearing your rosso tinted glasses' or ''ferrari flexi wings''. They won't admit it. It has happend to me on several forums and I just can't be bothered with all the arsey comments you get there (its 99% brits on the forum, 95% of them mclaren bumboys, maybe 5% ferrari supporters, if that). If one supports a different team I dont care, I just let them be. I support Ferrari for a reason and thats and they support mclaren for a reason. If lewis wins and I say 'brilliant win' on that forum, you don't here **** of them. If Massa wins, I say 'brilliant win', they throw back 'ferrari flexi win' or 'cheat cheat' or 'if lewis did ...'.

I've given up with those people and let them live in their own world. Not everyone should support one team and one driver as that'd be boring. A bit of banter like what happens on here often enough but some people get far to serious (not on this forum), and those often happen to be Mclaren and 99.9% of the time 'experts' who have come on the scene as a hamilton supporter since 2007.