Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers?

Hamilton is all grins and love for the team when things are going well, but when things get tough...

 

Sorry Andreas, that kind of list isn't worth the paper it's writen on....

 

For years MS fans never tired of bringing up his stats whenever there was a GOAT discussion. And now suddenly stats mean nothing anymore? Double standard

I'm no MS fan by any means but I accept him as the #1 Goat simply because he leads the stats.

But if we abandon stats and choose subjective criteria then I'm no longer interested in that discussion as we have become figure skating judges. Not my cup of tea

 

Sorry, i can easily dodge that bullet as i was never an Ms fan...i however admire him and aknowledge him as one of the best of all times, not because he won 7 titles (could have been more, could have been less) but because he was amazing behind the wheel, because he won titles without having the best car, because he won races others couldn't...as simply as that, because he was a genious behind the wheel, and also because much of Ferrari success was due to his ability outside the car, to focus the team, to develop the car, to folow a strategy like no other, to work harder than everyone else. take Ayton..i hated the guy...but let's face it..he was simply the fastest driver around in his day...his first victory in Estoril 85 is the stuff of legends (that day, even Denis Jenkinson said in wonder "it's villeneuve all over again!!"......As for Hamilton, he's as exciting to watch as a corpse (except when he needs to press buttons)...but of course, some like it!!

 

I don't. I'll never agree that MS is the GOAT.

 

I'm glad you can embrace being wrong

 

So you say only statistics count? That would mean that winning a GP in a Manor adds as much to the reputation of the driver as a victory in a superior Mercedes because both victories add exactly the same way to the statistics??? You can´t be serious...
Statistics say more about the driver/car combination rather than only the driver so statistics are impossible to be the only judgement on drivers abilities...They do not work in the same period and much less over different periods.

 

So, to summarise… the OP's original question was 'Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers'. On the basis of the 18 page debate we have had so far, the answer would seem to be 'No, not yet.' With some folk believing he will never get there, and some folk believing he will. The end.

 

Excelent post!

 

basically yes lol

 

All I know is that Hamilton is better than Nico and Heikki, neither of which are that great and about the same as Button and Alonso based on the head to head compeition. Does anyone really believe thst Vettel, Max, Riccardo or Alonso would not have had similar results in the Mercedes? I do give Mercedes and the FIA credit for providing a level of domination we have not seen since the Porsche 917/30 in the 1973 Can-Am.

 

Yeah....I don't get the "not intelligent enough" comments. I hear it oft repeated, but I'm not buying it. The guy has never come across as a mouth breather from what I've seen.

 

+1 Absolutely

 

It's one thing to have proven yourself in the lower ranks and then getting placed into a team's driver development program versus getting noticed by a top team's principal as a young kid, and being groomed from there. It is a pretty clear sign of how special a driver Lewis is. But of course, I would never expect a Lewis hater to ever agree with this......

 

The point is that Hamilton was so good and delivered results in the lower classes that it earned him the seat in McLaren. He didn't luck into that seat, he earned it. And rightfully so as he instantly gave a hard time to two time WDC Alonso.

 

As he should have considering how many more miles LH had in that car than Alonso prior to the season. What was the number...22,000 km?

Obviously Lewis is super talented but no one brings up that little tidbit about '07

 

Ok, good point.

However he wasn't a slouch in the following season either.

 

Hamilton was Ron Dennis's golden boy at McLaren, he was in their development program from when he was in karts.

 

I know. I consider karts a lower class

 

If you are not interested in this conversation, that's good.
It's completely futile to compare drivers from different eras based on stats.

F1 was completely different 10 years, 20 years or 40 years ago, and the drivers didn't meet the same challenge.
Championships were not determined on the same number of GPs every year, the point scoring was different, the tracks have changed and the cars of today are aliens to those of 40 years ago. So comparing the number of points, poles, wins, etc... is just plain ridiculous.

So, I don't know what you are trying to prove by pushing down our throats that Hamilton is one of the GOAT, blah, blah, blah...

It's at best an opinion and it's not shared by every one. Period.

I would agree with Jana, that with the increased influence of the car on the final result, there may be no great drivers anymore, just good jockeys. Maybe the laurels should go to the engineers from now on ...

 

Would you please stop calling me a hater!!! I do not hate anyone out there but you might accept that others do not agree with you...And if you base your entire argumentation on the fact that 20 years ago Ron took Lewis under his wings then you actually have no arguments because nobody doubted that Lewis has talent, the question is what he made with it and looking at those years against Jensen I do not see what is "so special" about him.
And the fact that all those Hamilton praises raised over here in the last 2.5 years makes me wonder what they think Lewis did so extraordinary beside winning against "Vanilla Driver" (according to some here) Nicole. He did nothing Vettel did not do the 4 years before but I can´t remember you or others praising Seb the same way...

 

+1

There is nothing special about Hamilton. His successful career was the result of receiving sponsorship early on that allowed him to get the best cars in the best teams in the lower categories on his way to F1.
At McLaren, he received preferential treatment immediately, and the same now at Mercedes.
A good driver obviously, not a fair one, but not a great driver in my book.

 

+1

 

+1. the drivers back in the day had to provide feedback to the engineers; technology has rendered them moot in that respect. A sensor gives more reliable feedback than a driver ever could.....

 

Agree. He would be doing no better than Ricci or Seb if he were in a RB or Ferrari.