2M .. a year? if per year then that's 5,000 per day.. links to official stats please? Have you contacted the parents of the dead kiddies and said you think they are statistically insignificant and its all totally "acceptable"? No? I didn't think so.. Do you agree with the president of the NRA saying the "solution" to nuts with guns are yet more guns? Armed teachers?
I support your argument. I love all forms of percussive weapons. Acceptable numbers are a beautiful thing. The 2nd ammendment of the american constitution cleary sacred & inviolate. I firmly believe in any state's sovereign right to legislate for its own security & protection of it's people's & it's borders. It is with great interest that I read that Iran in the process of ammending it's constitution to enshrine the right of the state to maintain nuclear weapons. I would encourage all to get behind Iran's sovereign right & expression of freedom: & support also Israel's huge unmonitored cache of chemical weapons, nerve gasses & ageing nuclear devices which are not part of the international inspectorate. [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=iesXUFOlWC0[/ame] [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuy_ikD7ZDc[/ame]
No,no,no,no,no....NO! Apparently WE don't understand. I'm sure all the parents of the 20 children don't,either.
if those 20 American babies were killed by some Islamic fundamentalist in Afghanistan there would be WWIII but it happens in the land of the "free and home of the brave" and it suddenly becomes acceptable
I don't think they think it acceptable, just a price for freedom they are prepared to pay. Makes no sense to the majority of non Americans.
This is in silver. It's also acceptable to make your own guns there as well,as another new thread,surruptitiously called,Gun Builders. In this thread,the fun loving folk describe how to build AR15. There are quite a few eyebrow raising facts in this thread.
Just so you Aussies don't think we're all insane. This is NOT the opinion of most Americans that I know, and most of the Americans I know ARE gun owners. There is no acceptable death rate for hand guns. And the figure of 2,000,000 instances of crimes that are thwarted by gun owners? Bogus. That's a gun nut stat that gets tossed about. More likely stat is under 900,000 per year, and I'm not buying that either. On the site I visit, which has 100,000 gun owners as members, I think I've read two instances in three years where guys actually felt they "thwarted a crime" with the handgun they carry. Statistics can be noodled around to support any theory. This particular one, I'm not buying. D
but, freedom is also not necessarily purchased at the end of a gun. the gun owner as defender of our freedom notion is much abused to support unfettered ownership. Yep, that old, "Well, should our government get out of control, we're gonna need our guns to rise up and defend our freedom" is a hard one to sell, but is, none the less, a basic tenant of 2nd Amendment defense in the USA. After all, if we hadn't been armed, we would never have beaten the British in 1776-1783, right? 55% of Colonial men owned a firearm in 1776, and now? 30-40%, of Americans own a gun, depending on which poll you believe. But, that same 55% gun ownership didn't keep the King of England from repressing Colonial America for quite some time, and the King had to know we were armed, as the Colonial militias served with British troops on many occasions in America. If anyone in the US really believes that the currently well armed U.S. citizens could defeat the US military should it rise up and squash the rights of those said same citizens, then they're really confused. Or if they argue that citizens being armed limits the military's thought of insurrection, they're delusional.
It's nice of you to pop over to our antipodean corner Dave; thanks & welcome. Your tone is concilliatory & rational; which a refreshing change from a polarised & dogmatic debate. May I cynically suggest that crisis, chaos & the attendant fears are politically very usefull; as the lack of middle ground and polarisation of people's dissempowers the mass. I have no idea as to the quantity or quality of domestic disscusion regarding firearms control in the US. It can only be considered astounding, that the situation persists whereby it is reported in past years; that preschoolers killed by stray rounds less than 5klm's from the whitehouse. I would not be optomistic regarding potential for positive social change in the usa. Economicly, socialy & culturally you 'septics' are in a tricky spot. Coloured gents no longer required to sit at the back of the bus & are now allowed to drive. At a guess it likely politically very expedient the republican forces of darkness now confined to opposition can lay low & plot behind the scenes to bolster & preserve the economic mandate gifted upon them by 'good old boy' ronnie reagan in the 80's when he deregulated the banking and finance sectors. His good work of course continues with congress 'bailing out' (read gifting) the top end of town with trillions of taxpayer $$$$$$$ secondary to decades of republican extortion & financial mismanagement. The masses will never surrender thier weapons because in so many ways guns are all they have left. 'those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.' Image Unavailable, Please Login
appreciate that, not all here think so highly of me. no question, for both sides, this current crisis will spawn discussion but no real change. We have plenty of change over the decades, after all Rome was not built in a day. interestingly, this particular issue crosses over political boundaries. There are plenty of Democrats in Congress who support the unfettered ownership of guns, including "assault rifles" and the like. It's truly not a Democrats vs. Republicans issue. for sure. You all have a Merry Christmas down under.
Well thanx for that measured opinion on this Dave. Have a happy Christian festive season(as I've said on a different thread),Dave. Maybe goodness and mercy shall prevail throughout the world. .........are we in the jokes thread.........
Opinions are certainly varied...this is not mine. I am actually finding it interesting that no one has posted that I want an assault weapon to kill lots humans in a hurry! And if I can get a hold of an Apache Helicopter, or a tank, or a flame thrower, I want that too!!!! All fully loaded and ready to use! Santa are you listening? Follow me for a minute, throughout history, governments have failed. Actually, given enough time it appears to be a given that all governments will fail. When this happens, usually (almost all of the time), the new order takes charge by force. We will call this reason #1 for civilians to be heavily armed and trained. And more importantly, I (me, my family and close friends) want to be heavily armed (and trained) for this situation. And Sometimes the governments even become hostile towards the lay people (all of the lay people). Its during those times that given enough pressure, the peasants will revolt. Reason #2. And if you take this to its final conclusion, then the peasants will actually be at war with the federal government! So, the peasants need to be as well armed at the federal government! With the same firepower! I believe this is what our founding fathers had in mind. So, did they expect the individual to own an assault rifle? You bet they did! But lets continue. What about if/when society breaks down? Reason #3. What do I mean by society breaking down? Lets say for whatever reason, the law is nonexistent and you are truly on your own. When this happens, he that has the biggest gun wins! Some of the first reasons that come to mind would be natural disaster related. So, a big natural disaster happens, it really doesnt matter if its locally or nationally. First comes the looting, then the actual high jacking of your food, supplies, whatever. Taken by force or at gun point! Imagine people killing each other over water and food. Once again, the one with the biggest gun wins. There are people that are preparing for the (fill in the blank) Apocalypse. Reason #4. The people have adopted the title of Preppers (yes they even have their own TV show and many websites http://americanpreppersnetwork.com/). They are stock piling food, water, guns, ammo, etc. I know several of these people and some of their arguments make sense. What about a pandemic that actually kills 50%+ of the population? What about a total financial collapse? What about a large scale EMP (TV show Revolution)? What about Yellow Stone (a super volcano) erupting? Global Thermonuclear War? Large asteroid impact? All of these just point out that life and society can be fragile and in each of these, society will breakdown. You best bet at survival will be if you are an isolationist with massive fire power. And then my personal favorite and fear is the impending Zombie Apocalypse. With the impending Zombie Apocalypse, you will have to fight your way to safety using everything in your firepower. Have you not seen Zombie Land? Remember it takes a head shot to put them down!!!! Dont forget to double tap!!!!! I call this one reason #5. Yes, you could say it fits well within reason #4, but I think it gets special treatment. This one clearly points out the need to have massive fire power. I want a gun that can kill a thousand zombies without reloading! In the 70s we had the same scare related to the cold war. Remember the movie Red Dawn (not that bad remake that came out this year)? I knew several people (back then) that own machine guns, some legally and some not so legally. There were individuals that owned tanks, there were individuals that own fighter jets, and there were individuals that own all sorts of actual military weapons. Especially WW2 vintage weaponry. Still very effective at killing people. The US has always been the land of the gun. No other country has embraced the idea of the general public having the rights to own whatever gun that individual wants like the US has. So, like many have said before, you cannot blame the gun for the issues at hand. You have to blame the individual committing that act. Lets call him/her the bad guy, or more technically, the criminal! So, by legislating laws that pertain to anything, and I repeat anything, it really doesnt have an effect on the CRIMINAL. If you think it will, then you really dont understand English or at least what the word CRIMINAL means. By its very definition, the criminal will commit crimes, and a crime is the breaking of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. So, anyone that thinks that making more laws will stop a murderer, when murder is and has always been against the law, is just really stupid or at least in total denial! I personally think that anyone that doesnt have at a minimum of 1000 rounds of ammunition is totally un prepared for anything! That being said, I am not considered a Prepper by anyone that I know of!
Is utterly pathetic and would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. Here's a novel idea: If you don't like your government, how about you get off your ass and vote? What is the historical level of turnout for US elections? 50%? No! The solution to everything is to buy bigger guns and more of them! .
Research on the efficacy of concealed carry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States#Research_on_the_efficacy_of_concealed_carry
