Greetings all, I'm new to this site, and have spent the last 2 year rebuilding a 69 911S that belonged to my old man who passed away. I love this old car, but the car that pulled me into the car world back in the day were the 308's and the 288 GTO, Mid engine wedges with naca inlets as far as the eye can see. The GTO is beyond realistic, but the 308 is a feasibility. This is the local business that deals in these older exotics: The Sport Haus in Reno, and this is the 308 in question. http://sporthausinc.com/al/sview.php?search_make=Ferrari&search_model=0&Dealer=0&search_trim=0&search_year=0&search_engine=0&search_body=0&search_fuel=0&search_type=a It's on consignment, and I can't get an answer as to the 5 year inspection being done. The old 911's seem to be on the same page as the 308's in this day and age with regards to price. So the big question for me, is it time to trade badges? Does this price seem to reflect current maintenance being completed in 2010 or does this price seem on the low side for an 83 308 GTS? Thanks for indulging a Ferrari Rookie.
Welcome to the site! If you don't want to pay a little more for a 328, the 308 Quattrovalve is a good choice. It generally looks like a good car but here are some observations for a car with 41K miles: Leather color does not match the leather color on the doors and center console so they must have been redyed, especially since there does not seem to be much wear on the seats. I would ask about that and see how much wear is on the driver's side bolster. Drivers floor mat is worn/dirty. You may replace those anyway but in a car show, the originals are needed to score well. Engine looks clean except for the black paint on the coolant reservoir and I don't believe the whole plenum and throttle body are painted red on the stock 308 QVs. Minor wear on one of the rims, maybe others. Given that, the miles and assuming the prepurchase inspection is good, past records are available and it has had a major service (belts, etc) recently, you may be able to get it for slightly less than $31K. I will defer to others on the price because I know 328 pricing better. Good luck
Price doesn't seem too low for an 83. As far as service, since nothing is mentioned, you should assume it needs one, including belts. Big diff between the Ferrari world and Porsche world. In the Porsche world, 41,000 miles would be considered extremely low miles for an 83. In the Ferrari world, it's considered highish. In fact, dangerously close to the 50,000 mile mark in which Ferraris spontaneously combust and become unsellable.
I agree, but I will add (as a former Porsche dude) that the the difference is more likely that Porsche owners don't mess with their odometers like some of the Ferrari owners have done over the years. Miles on a 911 are considered extra notches on your belt, while Ferrari owners are worried about the spontaneous combustibility of their 'investment'. Take mileage on a Ferrari with a grain of salt. That all being said a 308 can really be driven around just like any old 911. The biggest issue to me when driving the 308 compared to a 911, is the spectacle that it causes and the fear of actually parking it somewhere unattended. I too always had the 'one day' mantra regarding Ferrari ownership. The downturn in the economy then put a 308 in the same price range of many of the previous Porsches that I have owned. Once I figured out that there were Weber carbed 308s out there the burden of any maintenance issue concerns were subsided..... So I pulled the trigger. If you have put back together an older 911 there really isn't anything on the Ferrari that you should be worried about handling on your own, especially if you opt for a carbed 308. Perhaps you might be reaching around things and stretching a little bit more, but that's about it.
Absolutely it's time to pull the trigger. This may not be the right car, but it's the right time I recommend the 328 Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was incorrect about both the plenum and throttle body being painted red on the stock version. However, the red spark plug wires are routed differently on your car and there appears to be some other differences in hardware there, compared to the stock engine picture I found in another 308 QV thread. The car appears to be a US version, not Euro, unless there were major differences between the 83, 84 and 85 QV versions. Someone else may be able explain the different hardware in the picture. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Stig, Here's a few words. First of all, I would think long and hard about selling your old man's Porsche. You have put a lot of time in it and I can only assume it holds significant emotional value to you that can never be recouped if you sell it. This particular 308 has me scratching my head a bit. The fuel distributor looks like a euro unit. Everything else looks USA although the air pump strikes me as oddly placed. Some parts of the car look worn more than the mileage suggests while others look great. In any event, I would figure you would have to spend at least another 6-7K on it to get service up to date and other unknowns. Personally, I would prefer a car that is all there that you could buy for 40K or less. IMO, this one should be in the 20s. Hard to say exactly where without seeing it. By the way, among QVs, 84-85 had significant upgrades. Dave
Looks like a pretty decent and honest car. Interior is not particularly worn and the engine bay looks clean and tidy, for example. I would think that the miles are right (although, you can never tell as others have pointed out). Body and paint look very acceptable. If the compression and leakdown #'s are OK and the transaxle shifts well with no crunching then you probably have a pretty solid car at a fair price. Maybe offer them $25K and end up around $27K. $27K would be a very fair price for a QV in decent shape. There's going to be a few things that need attending to - it's a 27 year old car, so, if there's a scratched wheel or worn shocks or a slow window then that shouldn't be surprising. Most every 308 has a decent sized list of things that need fixing or maintaining. If you can't get a credible read of when the belts and tensioner bearings were last changed then best to get that done. The pricing likely already reflects that there isn't any verifiable proof of the last belt change, so don't expect that the dealer is just going to knock off $5,000 grand because you point out that the belts may need attention. If the car has been in Reno then you can probably work with a 5 year belt change schedule. Take 'er for a drive and see what you think! ps. as was pointed out above, tough call to sell your Dad's old car - I think I'd just keep it to remind me of my Dad.
I suggest you should call Sierra Autosport who did the "drive belt service" (shown on carfax report) and you'll find out...it's not what it seems. Happy hunting
Seems like a reasonable price as long as a Pre-purchase Inspection checks out ok. The smog pump is in the correct location for an '83 QV. I bought my '83 QV with 41K miles in 2001, mileage didn't scare me a bit. I was buying her to drive her. Also the pristine garage queens tend to have dried up seals and electrical issues (corrosion). They may look like brand new but may not run like brand new. Today my car has 60K miles and still drives wonderfully. Just finished a complete repaint and the 60K service is next. My car is in really great shape and even with 60K miles I wouldn't accept an offer in the low $30's. Just my two cents.
Thanks and really appreciate the input. Tommott77, I've never heard of the 50,000 mile spontanious combustion issues with Ferrari's. What do these engines tend to do that's so catastrophic? I Noticed Chas stated a 308 running strong at 60K miles. I know that these aren't every day drivers, but I definately want a car that can be driven say 5K miles a year, and be driven like it was stolen Basically what I do with the 911. I'm not trying to do the Concours moth ball thing. Amnster, I noticed that belt change on the Carfax as well. I'm making queries there, and waiting for a reply. It's Nevada, were kind of slow here But you said it isn't what it seems. So from what you see, that doesn't impress you as the big service? I will definately advise when I get an official word. Dave, I'm really on the fence with letting the 911 go. Your comments really ring true towhat I'm thinking. It brings back so many great memories and makes you smile stupidly while you drive it. I just got it back on the road a couple of months ago and it's a lot of fun to drive. Very loud and very uncomfortable, a true 60's era sports car, perfect in every respect. It's just that 40 years later it doesn't have that sports car acceleration I've been spoiled with newer cars, and you really have to think about passing people on 2 lane highways while in those mid range speeds. It only has 170 hp, and is quick, not fast by today's standards. additionally, I just don't want to finance anything in today's economy. Again, thanks for the input. It's some additional ammo to sound halfway intelligent when I go in for a test drive. Time to see what these things are about, and not just a Road and Track article I've read. All the Best, Scott
My 1979 carb'd car has about 84K miles on it and runs fine, no oil burning, no real oil usage, no problems other than a 4-3 syncho that is finicky. Replaced all rubber including fuel/water hoses, and suspension bushings and CV joint covers this last year due to age and bringing car out of storage. Note that I parked the car in 1995 due to leaking fuel crossover hoses and didn't have the time or inclination to deal with it then. If you drive the car weekly, things tend not to go wrong with them. I average 60-80 miles per week at the moment. The spontaneous combustion thing refers to people that don't change tehir fuel lines soon enough. Doug
I'm also a member on the Early 911S registry, another group of die hard car junkies with great insight and dedication. Here's a link for my old car, in heat of the rebuild, a lot of the before and after. It was a fun project as well, kind of a labor of love. I learned more about 911's then I ever cared to, ha ha. The more you dug, the more work it needed. It sat for a decade before this project started. But it was done right and the rust, which is a nightmare for these old cars, was quelled. Hope you enjoy. http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30077 Again, thanks for all the 308 info. I'm going to go in and talk with the Sport Haus in a little more detail tomorrow. Scott
It's the VALUE that burns at 50K miles, not the car!! LOL! Well as mentioned some do, but injected cars have those plastic fuel lines......
Thanks for clearing that up. I believe NV Stig misread my initial post. I have heard of several 3x8s, some on here some elsewhere, running strong with well over 100k miles on the clock. The point I was trying to get across was that the typical 3x8 owner treats there cars differently than your typical ole air cooled 911 driver, some unfortunately take it to the extremes (messing with mileage on Odometers). Otherwise you can treat a 3x8 just like any old 911, the difference being is the "other guy" that you drive by or park next to will not. Btw, awesome 'S' there NV Stig. Love that color. Big fan of how Porsche was willing to experiment with all those 'zany' colors back in the day. It really adds to the desirability of these cars today IMO.
Just to repeat what has been said, the engines in these cars (303/328) are extremely well built and there are numerous examples with 100,000 miles on them that still run strong and reliable. The combustion is in the market value. At some point (50,000 miles?) the general public says no to these cars and they become hard to sell without a steep discount. But in reality, someone who buys a well maintained 308/328 with 50,000 miles can expect to have at least 50,000 more with little trouble. -F
Scott, I think you might find that a 308 is not an exceptionally fast accelerating car either. I would bet that your early S will hang with most any 308 pretty well. So if you're looking for stong performance then a 308 may well disappoint. Related, making an early (pre-'74) 911 go fast is dirt cheap compared to a 308. You could, for example, drop a 3.0 sc engine in your car with webers and SSIs and have a pretty torquey 225hp. Keep the original S engine on the shelf for when/if you sell down the road. Getting a proportional bump in hp/tq for a 308 will cost mega-bucks comparatively. Just a thought.
You could always find a QV engine and a couple sets of Webers and perform a similar swap with a 308. You just have to find a set of intake manifolds or a fabricator that could fab some up for you without breaking the bank. This would not cost too much more than a similar engine swap as found in many 911s and have a healthy 270-280hp under the bonnet. The main difference is that not too many 308 owners are willing to undertake such an endeavor.........again to the perceived combustibility of the value of their cars. The amount of 911 hotrodders are quite numerous and willing 308 hotrodders are quite hard to find.....hell, probably most if not all of them post here. Super or turbocharging are also somewhat affordable options but I personally prefer to keep natural aspirated motors naturally aspirated.
Huh? A runner 911sc engine can be had for about $3,000 and webers plus linkage bits and such is another $1,500. Whole thing done for about $5,000 tops. A runner QV engine plus the carbs and custom intake/plenum work? That'll be at least $15,000. 3X the 911. It's not even close to being comparable. I wish that wasn't the case, but you know how anything f-car is about 5 times more expensive than it should be. You're right, not many f-car owners are willing to take the plunge on that kind of endeavor, both because of the expense and the magnitude of the technical details. What you're describing is much, much more complicated than the 911 engine swap. Just my $.02.
That 308 was a fun little car to drive!! First time I've ever been in a Ferrari. I LOVE that engine note!! Bad news is it was only the fan belt and alternator belt that were switched. Incomplete documentation to determine if the 5yr /30K info has been completd. Still no word from Yerington where the work was done. I'm beginning to think that it needs the spendy work done to it. Kind of a similar personalty in power distribution, about the same acceleration and mid range power as the Porsche. I thought it would have more kick than it did off the line. Accelerates like the Porsche, maybe a little faster, I didn't have a stopwatch. The weight distribution is really nice in the 308. You don't feel like you are trying to steer a bullet into a corner, and carry a little more speed into the turns instead of doing a hard acceleration in the apex. That 911S is the first year they put fuel injection into the line, fully mechanical. Kind of makes the car unique when compared to the E or the T's of the era which had the Webers. the fuel injection gave 15hp more and helped with "emmissions," ha ha. That car and the old corvairs were fighting for the #1 spot on Ralph Naders most hated car for emmisions back in the day. It took me a long time to get comfortable with that color. Those 60's colors were pretty crazy. I think metallic gray, black or Ferrari red are proper colors for sports cars. I'm torn. I may have to keep the 911 and wait a couple more years to step into the 308, but what a cool car that Ferrari is. If it were red it would be really hard to choose.
Cars are best when they inhabit the eras they were built for. Sharp edged Bertone designs suit metallics whilst 60's curves seem right in 'groovy' colours. 911s buck the trend in looking good in almost any colour (in a way that say a 60's pagoda Mercedes would not). Personally I like your 911 in that colour.
If you want a little more zip, look for a euro 308 or a 328. There have been a couple of nice euro QV's on ebay lately.
