Is Lewis Hamilton the greatest of all time, why or why not?

It’s possible that statistics can have meaning without defining greatness. If greatness is just “marketing speak” then the point of the thread…and indeed its title….is absurd and wouldn’t have filled 26 pages. And presumably you wouldn’t be posting in it.

 

The most successful driver in F1 is the guy who latches on to the most successful team(s) throughout their career. Same as it ever was. F1 is about the team, not the driver. The best drivers are the ones who elevate their team and make everyone on it better, not those who ride on the team's back casting blame when things go wrong. A lot of folks have a really hard time comprehending that.

 

This thread, like many before, has only be started to seek controversy and mostly to denigrate Hamilton.
Nobody can deny his success, so the detractors will say he isn't the greatest and invoke many different reasons.
Kimi says in in his post #3, "there is no such thing as a GOAT in F1".

 

Clearly, the new Race Director is anti-Lewis too!! When can we expect Sir Lewis (and his fans) to lobby for Wittich to get fired?

 

There is no such thing as a GOAT.

There are drivers who are the quickest, but have other flaws. Some were only good in cars that perfectly fit them, while others could make a inferior car go fast, but had horrible race craft, or couldn't conserve the car to save their lives.

I **** on Hamilton a lot, but race craft wise, Hamilton is right there with Schumacher and Prost. He wasn't always the quickest. He's not the guy that can get the extra tenths out of a car, or pull off the most amazing passes. Other drivers have bested him there for some time.

But honestly, who gives a ****? Prost, Lauda, and Schumacher didn't win titles always being the quickest. He matured and stopped driving over his head, and got better race craft. He stopped trying to be Senna with his passes, and instead looked for the cleanest way to overtake, even if that meant an undercut in the pits, which is right out of Schumi's playbook.

Now Vettel? Total joke at this point. He's lost all ability to race like a professional.

 

If Lewis spent a couple years at SF after merc, they'd drive him insane too and the same would happen to him!

 

Doubt it. Vettel was a once great driver, but he became head case after 17', when he lost the title. He's been a weapon out there ever since, and needs to retire, as it's gotten very sad to watch his decline.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That's all I remember.

The rest of your post is your personal opinion, and we all have one.

The reason some once top drivers stay in F1 even when they have obviously lost the edge is that they still find teams ready to pay them lots of money in exchange of average performance. They have enough racecraft left to race safely, but no more the motivation to chase the last tenth. I don't blame them. There is no pension funds in F1, so you better cash your chips while you can. Case of Michael Schumacher's return, Raikkonen, Vettel, Hamilton tomorrow perhaps?

 

I’ve said before, my standard of greatest would be as follows: If I owned a mythical Formula 1 team and I could choose any two drivers from the post-war era, wouldn’t I choose the two I considered to be the greatest? If you accept that premise and ignore my other postulate that it is impossible to fairly compare drivers across eras for the reasons that we all know, then which two drivers would I choose? I don’t know for sure, but one of them would not be named Hamilton or Schumacher. In fact, it probably would not include any drivers from their eras, except perhaps for one or two who were there from Schumacher’s early years.

Anyway, it’s no longer a productive conversation so I’m finished with it.

New thread idea, then (for somebody else to start): If you could have any two former or current F1 drivers in your hypothetical F1 team, whom would you choose?

 

Schumacher and Hamilton.

Just kidding... It's an impossible question to answer without knowing how good the hypothetical team is.

If it's an utterly unassailably dominant team, anyone will do. Might as well take a marketing win like Hamilton.

If not and the team needs development plus a driver who can wring a win out of it, and a lot of people would fight me on this, Alonso isn't a bad choice. Neither is MSC.

 

Disagree. Drivers should know when to walk away and not stay at the party. It disgraces their legacy.

I love Schumacher, but had he walked away and stayed away, his legacy would be brighter. He was clearly not the fastest driver by 06' anymore, and had he stayed for 07' against Kimi, Hamilton, and Alonso in equally fast cars, he would've lost another title. It would've been better to have stayed away. As it stands, he came back and looked like an old man that had no business being out there in his second stint with Mercedes.

Kimi was just in it for the money like Villeneuve, and Alonso is just delusional that he can win another race. Love them both, but it's true.

 

Mercedes hired Schumacher to develop the team and the car. He wasn't there to compete for the championship, the car was incapable of it.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I ant believe his debate is still going on Lol , talk about beating a dead horse repeatedly wihout any change in outcome .
Nay sayers and yay sayers will be never bend their thoughts and the 2 sides will be never see eye to eye .
Inqhbe been readin this thread for a while , there isn’t a single point that hasn’t be debated to death with no change in outcome .
So , smoke the peace pipe , agree to disagree and time to move on .
You know the thread is out of hand when the comments about his clothing starts . His business , obviously some the members don’t like , but do you like putting him down because his dress code does not conform with yours .
Some of you are in fashion and some couldn’t care less . What you chose to wear is your business and no one else’s
What I am getting at is . Art and fashion are suggestive , this forum is about racing , let’s leave the off race life of the drivers out of the discussions , very childish comments at times , you guys are better than that

 

GOAT are those drivers that dominate INDY 500, F1 and Daytona 500 and possibly hill climbs(Pikes Peak), Le Mans etc.
Alonso seems to be the closest of this current crop of drivers.

 

Likely for the same reason airline passengers are asked to remove object before a crash.

Things next to the skin can wind up inside the skin when blunt force trauma happens.

I know jacketed ammo can cause problems for ER surgeons when it separates from the lead core and fragments.
Ear studs might just tear the ear lobe off.

Crashes like Niki Lauda's should make people leery of what they wear in a race car.


As for direct experience, I did once have a pivot pin from a watch band jammed into my wrist in a trauma event.
Haven't really worn a watch since. (Although more because the resultant bone spur on the wrist made a watch uncomfortable.)

 

Your graph shows exactly when the MB dominance began.

 

It was beneath him. He shouldn't have done it. Tons of poor races and got bested by Rosberg. Yes, it hurt his legacy.

I say this loving what he brought to the team. He was brilliant and his skills in those days couldn't be matched. Coming back after those motorcycle accidents screwed him up, was not a good idea.

Luca was right to say he was ruining a perfect ending to his racing career. Brazil 06' was the perfect ending. Him going out in a Ferrari racing hard, almost winning another title, as opposed to finishing outside the top 10 in points in his final year. Doesn't matter the Mercedes was garbage. It was a very bad look for a 7 WDC.

Hamilton would be wise to not let it happen to him. Not to let his ego deny that his skills are slipping, and he needs to find a way to go out as a fighter, and not finishing behind a younger teammate and in a car that relegates him to struggle for podiums. One year like that won't hurt his legacy, but multiple will.

 

If you are in a fire wearing jewelry, the burned flesh parts swell dramatically. If wearing rings for instance it can make it very difficult to remove the jewelry without causing more damage to the skin or body part. In addition, the risk of losing the appendage due to swelling and lack of circulation increases dramatically as well.

 

How is McHam fairing against the Mercedes newbie ?

 

???? What a lame attempt at pushing out the goal posts. Sheesh . . . .

 

So Hammy might risk losing his ears . . . .

 

He did say one or both of his ear rings are welded shut and further stated that IF the FIA press on the 2005 rule that he would have to cut off part of his ear!!@

 

Well, it's not like he uses them much. (j/k)

 

He said they'd have to cut the earrings off, not his ears. Drama queens!

 

Some earstuds are like rivets, and not meant to be taken off.

They can only be surgically removed.