Is Maserati a second-class citizen?

I feel this debate has become very interesting, and the provides the ideal opportunity to make some changes.
As I rarely post I do not feel I have the authority to suggest these changes, it should be the people that have invested much time and effort in Maserati on Ferrarichat that are given that task.
However I will express my experience as a user. Like many people on here I own multiple makes of cars so do not feel any "maternal" protection towards any one make of car. I am restoring a 3500 GT and google searches for information bring you to ferrarichat, this has lead to some good contacts, information, and in many cases parts I required. It never crossed my mind it was branded by Ferrari, it just provided the information, meaning I had no need to trawl other forums which I find are usually "modern" biased.
Having read this thread and the comments I completely understand the concerns that this forum deserves better than tucked away in "other cars", but please be weary that those changes do not effect the content, as I am sure many casual users looking for information will not be concerned with loyalty and go elsewhere if there is a better offering.
I like the idea of subgroups both Ivan`s suggestion, as long as there is enough traffic to keep them relevant, or the 1980 cut off as my interest wanes in the 1970`s and post 1980 does not interest me.
In conclusion I feel this forum group is strong enough to support maseratichat, but I do like to link between ferrarichat as some of the Ferrari threads are very interesting, and members interests cross over between the two marques very well.

 

Rob, this is what I do when I want to search for technicalities specific to Maserati. But it's an additional step (after having to scroll down to find it) compared to a single search if it would be a stand alone Maserati forum.

If you want to put it to a vote among Maserati users, why not, just do it.
Now about the structure, that's not the point. We could go first to a very simple structure (or even no structure at all to start with) in order to allow for a smooth transfer of the threads.

 

I keep coming back to the core question that was raised in this thread "is Maserati a second-class citizen" and suggest we focus on that question and only that question. I agree with Rob that creating subgroups within the forum while it might sound like a good idea in the end hurts, especially when we already have a lot of contents that would need to be sorted. I strongly suggest we leave that alone.
My issue has always been about brand identity. I have nothing against Ferrari since I own a couple of them. I just feel the Maserati brand deserves to be elevated beyond the "Other Cars" category and MaseratiChat.com (where the contents is exactly the same as today) seems like the quickest and best solution.
I am amazed at the number of times I am talking to a vintage Maserati owners that has never heard of this site. A Google search of "maserati user group" brings this subgroup 10th on the list. A similar search for Ferrari user group brings it to either the number 1 or 2 position, which is where you want to be.

In summary this is my proposal:
1. Make MaseratiChat.com separate with links to both FerrariChat and LamborghniChat
2. Leave the structure as is , at least for now.
3. Promote MaseratiChat.com so that it is first or second on a Googgle search (Rob: this one is for you as I doubt we can help you with this).

Ivan

 

Rob,

Did a Google search on "Lamborghini user group" and "Lamborghini user forum" and in both cases LamborghiniChat.com did not show up. I even went 10 pages deep in the search results, and still could not find LamborghiniChat. Needless to say this is a BIG problem and could explain the reason why traffic to that site is down. Like you, I have many years experience in web hosting and search engine ranking is extremely important.
My suggestion continues to be to create a separate MaseratiChat.com but it needs to be properly promoted within the web environment or new users will not be attracted. I am not concerned about the current users since the transition should be smooth and we already see the value of this site. If you want to grow the user base within MaseratiChat then I suggest you look at ways to promote the site with search engines.

Ivan

 

Yes, as a Lamborghini owner the split has been a disaster for myself and others I have spoken with.....I seldom go there.

Staying in the main FChat page is the best solution.

 

I also used to look at the Lamborghini threads all the time(mainly a vintage enthusiast ) but rarely do anymore. This inferiority complex is strange, based on what the company was in the 1950's and 1960's. Both brands had their high and low points in design and execution and both companies used many of the same people to design and build their cars over the years. The only thing happening now that many vintage Maserati owners don't like is the overall praise that Ferrari gets that Maserati's generally don't get as much of. People like Walter writing great books on the Maserati cars will help offset that but separating from the ferrarichat site will not. If anything being close to the Ferrari collectors has brought more interest and hits on the Maserati threads. Let's face it friends being linked to the Ferrari website was a plus not a minus for Maserati vintage car collectors and enthusiasts and I think some like Walter realize that. Ferrarichat should put bigger headers up and break the Maserati thread into sections like they do with the Ferrari sections but they should not split off the forum. Maybe even expand this site as the collector site mainly for Italian cars of all brands with emphasis on Ferrari and Maserati, Lamborghini and maybe Alfa Romeo.

By he way, the amount of time we have spent debating this shows an outside entity running it is the only choice for a vintage constructive Maserati forum.

 

I am very interested in learning more about your experience.
How did you go to the Lamborghini site in the past? What changed that makes you not want to go there anymore? I would think if the people and contents are the same the interest would not diminish .... but perhaps I am missing something.

Ivan

 

Agreed, being close (in the same forum) I think encourages cross ownership of multiple brands.

 

When it was here, I would just press the key and I was there...it was really easy. Now, you make the same keystroke and you are on some homepage that doesn't look or feel like FChat....then it wants me to log in again (which I never do, so I can't tell you when I made a post last).

Then, like is being proposed here it is divided up into a bunch of sections, 11, 8 of which have less than 100 threads....essentially most of the forum is a ghost town, just missing a tumbleweed. There has only been 8 posts in the past 6 days. Online right now on a weekend? 44, 1 member, 34 guests, and 9 robots. So only one person able to post even if he wanted to.

 

+1

 

Well that's flat out not true but they have contentious issues with some clubs over the years. MCI was until the new owner of MIE decided to abandon it and the magazine. It WAS an international club but certainly not the only one. I was well welcomed both in 1986 and 1994 at the international meet. I've met many international Maserati owners both in Europe and plenty of them also came to Concourso Italiano. Including the then club president of the UK club Alexander Fysche who would always wear the most outrageous, flamboyant suit in the fashion of the Union Jack. But yes, there was some infighting here in the USA. For several years a lot of that took place here on the East coast with TMC and their president who frankly made a mess of things. But that's all over with and the TMC that's left in the south, Rocky Mountains and west coast has been perfectly amenable with everyone. They've been doing a good job with the Monterey events. The NE area Maserati club was killed off. That's a long and not very helpful story.

But this sort of negative behavior has hardly been limited to Maserati or Lamborghini. Ferrari has had it's own ugly issues with multiple clubs and or hoaxsters. Mention the name Leon & Watkins Glen international event in the NE region and prepare to hear a lot of stuff. Very ugly stuff too. I've been doing events involving the Ferrari Club (2 different ones, big fights), Maserati and Lamborghini clubs since 1992. There are tons of stories for every marque. So I don't really think that's the issue. Everywhere you go with events and the internet websites there are ego issues.

I agree for the most part with the rest of your post. The navigation from Ferrarichat to the Lamborghini section is not a seamless one. They're like two separate entities now so perhaps it's the people who frequented the Ferrari side more but not exclusively that are not showing up? I know many vintage Lamborghini people mostly from the west coast who joined here and posted a bit but never seemed to continue. SI think some of that is because of the more combative nature of the Lamborghini section that used to be here. They've told me so. It's some of those combative people who got thrown off of other Lamborghini websites and they'd prefer not to have to deal with them again. Use your imagination ... I'm certain you know who they are.

What I'm hearing much more now is this a lot about being butthurt and not so much organizational. It would be a shame if traffic dropped.

This section really picked up and took off when the pricing went crazy for all Italian collector cars and people began taking a second look at vintage Maseratis. A lot of cars received gorgeous restorations as a result of that which is nice if you're a fan but can be nerve wracking if your doing a restoration on a budget. That's all cooled off quite a bit but during all of that I got to see who was buying what and there are plenty of diverse collectors on here with the bankrolls to pursue such collections. Something to think about.

 

Perhaps it's just a technical issue but take a trip over to what used to be the Lamborghini section and see what you think of the mechanics of the transistion.
None of the geographic region forums made it over there ... so there's that as well.

 

I think it speaks volumes that we have grown men, on the internet, asking: "Do you know who I am?"

 

Any launch of a new website with “chat” in the URL is so 1999, it’s destined to fail, or am I’m incorrect?

Every time I mention “Ferrari-CHAT” to anyone under 35, their eyes glaze over and they stop listening....this is something to consider.

 

I don't give a flying **** about them. What could they possibly contribute? Car clubs and websites like this section of Fchat are mostly for vintage models. The kids are elsewhere and frankly not all that interested in the older cars. I wasn't either when I was their age.

 

Rob one thing that must be clarified is that the reason why many of us would like a direct access portal, i.e. to be able to click on Maseratichat .com is NOT AT ALL due to us being insecure or vexed or whatever imagined false reason several of which I have seen in recent posts.

It is because Maserati deserves not to be put in an internet backroom and also because many who would potentially come plainly refuse to have to go to a Ferrari forum to access this.

It is not for me that I want this and of course I have a direct access link that shows up right away in my computer and cell phone google.

It is for NEW people to grow this forum.

I don't know how many times in Europe I have mentioned the Khamsin thread to people only for them to baulk when I say they have to go to a Ferrari forum in which it is buried..their eyes glaze over. I don't know if you have been to Europe but there are different sets of values and concerns and while in the US you are pragmatic to a fault and do not care about the means when it makes it easier to reach the goal -such as eating lobsters and crabs in restaurants with a child's bib which most Europeans would not be seen dead wearing- that is just an example, in Europe we care about proprieties, not better or worse just different and it cannot be ignored, you have many Europeans here.

Many Americans also refuse to partake in a Maserati forum inside a Ferrari forum. Just weeks ago a very long time Maseratista in the US Northwest stated the same.

So to recap and conclude with my humble two cents because this is going around in circles:

1- You create a direct access under the name of www.MaseratiChat.com while making it as easy as it is now to navigate to the Ferrari or other Italian or F1 and all the other sections with DIRECT LINKS ATOP EVERY PAGE.
Once you have this setup there is enough goodwill here that all the Maserati clubs worldwide can be informed and visits and memberships and sponsorships will grow. Of course you would then ideally advertise this in the right places.

2-Don't change the Maserati section for now or implement just the 1980 split as AMLC suggested. You can always adjust later according to popular demand.

Voilà.

 

I think your ideas are great Marc. Just to clarify , my quote from a previous post was a general feeling I have noticed. It is only a part of the reason for wanting a separate but it is part of the reason even if you won't admit it. There are other good and bad reasons and I understand both sides. But your comments in previous posts show my point.

Your comments from previous posts wich I think are true and the first very funny:

"Cows and donkeys are born in the suburbs (Sant Agata and Maranello) only Tridents are made in Modena"

"I cannot over-emphasize this point. There is a negativity against Maserati stemming from the Biturbo years and the nine year USA market absence from 1991 to 2000 along with a lot of stupid negative wrong hearsay about the brand in Fchat and the world at large, about certain models which must be eradicated. Maserati also won the Indy 500 twice which Enzo's entries failed to do repeatedly."

If anything being close to the Ferrari collectors has brought more interest and hits on the Maserati threads and being linked to the Ferrari website was a plus not a minus for Maserati vintage car collectors and enthusiasts and I think some like Walter realize that.(sorry Walter but I think you agree).

I have been following Italian marques as long as you Marc. I was exposed to them at a very young age by other family members and have seen many of the important Maserati's over the years and have many pictures to prove it. I respect you and all the other vintage car Maserati people on this forum and wish only the best for all of you. Whatever way you decide to go with this I hope it succeeds.

 

Wow...
Talk about first world problems.
"I won't go to that subforum because it's part of a Ferrari forum"

 

You've been here since 2006 and in those 15 years this is the first time you mention this as being a problem?

 

Unlike you Bob I am not retired and have a lot more important things to deal with, a lot on my plate. However since this thread was started it is an opportunity to improve things.