Is Porsche going to take over AUDI in F1 ?

There has been noises recently about a 12th team in F1 in future, MBS is apparently in favour of it.

Szafnauer recently talked to the media about spearheading it.

Also I read 2 articles about Porsche taking an interest in Williams.

Today I find this on Youtube:

Porsche to TAKE OVER Audi Formula One Team!
Porsche to TAKE OVER Audi Formula One Team!

What to make of all this ?

 

I'm not catching alot of flak on my sources about this at this moment in time.

Does Porsche really need to be in F1? I mean, they're in other motorsports and do quite well. They're production car market is doing quite well as well.

 

I cannot argue with that. Audi F1 looks in disarray at the moment, with serious managerial issues.
Incidently, Porsche has already announced they are going to leave Formula E, which is hardly a substitute for their F1 ambitions.
Porsche wanted to get into F1 a few years ago, until their negotiations with Red Bull failed.
I would rate Porsche higher than Audi in engineering competence.
They have been in motorsport for decades and designing racing engines for a long time, Audi not so much.
Audi doesn't design engines; like Skoda, SEAT or Cupra, they use VW engines (badged VAG) on their street cars.

Wait and see ...

 

Will Porsche ever enter F1? August 2024 Statement:
Now, Porsche’s vice president of motorsport Thomas Laudenbach has confirmed that the company's aspirations to enter F1 once again have come to an end.

Laudenbach’s comments are the first official statement from Porsche regarding their F1 ambitions since the 2026 regulations were fully unveiled in June, effectively putting to rest any hopes of seeing the legendary marque back on the F1 grid.

Describing the situation as “a closed chapter,” Laudenbach made it clear that F1 is no longer on Porsche’s radar.
“It is off the table: right now F1 is not a task for us, and we are not spending any energy on that,” he stated, as quoted by motorsport.com.

Instead, Porsche is concentrating on its current motorsport commitments, which Laudenbach described as “nearly the perfect fit for the brand.”

 

That’s too bad. Porsche has elevated just about every series they’ve ever committed to.

 

And killed one or two.

 

Which ones ? Please don't tell us CanAm, that was put to death by the oil crisis.

 

well:
IMSA,
Group C
Can Am ( oil crisis apart - cam Am continued until the 80's but it was not much other than full bodied F5000 car.)

To be fair - they did not mean to kill them, but it was a slow strangulation over time.

 

I do not see how Porsche gains anything by being a full team in F-1. They will only degrade their reputation. They are the Kings of Endurance Racing and Sports Car racing that is what they need to focus on. They could do an engine, and may be do Audi+Porsche thing ... but I would not see any value in them being in F1 as a team.

VW's only brands that have any F-1 pedigree are Bugatti and Lamborghini... which are either super old ( Bugatti ) or very lack luster = Lamborghini. I however would love to see Bugatti back in F1 as an engine supplier / Team. However that makes even less commercial sense than Porsche. However if VW were smart - they would brand the Audi F-1 engine as both Bugatti and Lamborghini... and sell those to other teams. Ideally they would call their F1 team Auto Union.... but again never going to happen.

 

I agree with that. F1 is totally outside Porsche's area of reference.
At most I could see them as engine builder, but the moment isn't opportune, IMO.
I hope they won't try it and get their fingers burnt.

 

Today's Bugatti is an usurper that has absolutely nothing to do with the Bugatti of old.
It's an unashamed bit of badge engineering, after Volkswagen managed to acquire the right to the name. .
What's left of the REAL Bugatti companyl lives inside Messier-Bugatti (part of SAFRAN) in a factory South of Paris.
They are apparently world leaders in the fabrication of landing gear systems for airliners.

Do you know that Bugatti was once in F1?
In 1956, they entered a mid-engine with a 8in-ligne transversal engine (?!) in the French GP.
Driven by Maurive Trintignant, the car lacked development and didn't finish.

 

Porsche has been a very successful engine supplier in F1, for McLaren (with TAG funding - when TAG was still Mansour Ojjeh's Saudi company, which only years later acquired the Heuer watches - which were even later sold to LVMH, who kept the TAG-Heuer brand).

 

I know it well. They won one race with their own team/car in 1960. TAG Turbo ( its official name ) won 12 of 16 races in 84... at the time the most successful car / team in F1 history. It was Ojjeh's father Mohammad, who funeded Mansour's McLaren deal...he used the engines for part of the company. Niki Lauda brokered a lot of the fighting between McLaren and Porsche, in 83... and ruined his relationship with Dennis by insisting they run the turbo in late 83 - almost winning in South Africa.

 

Yes, I know all that. The Messier- Bugatti was the part that spun off with SNCF building railway carriages, after Ettore died. While there is no consistent DNA in the company - there is not much in the Messier -Bugatti part either. Kind of like MATRA exists in Renault... but not really. The 56 car was a disaster, ugly and way over weight. Jean Bugatti tried to revive the company after the war, with about 7-8 cars built in total... a very sad end to a glorious name. The 20's were Bugatti's heyday, when the 35's were the rocket ships of the day. Regardless at least there is some F1 Grand Prix history with Bugatti... with Porsche its one win, and a string of slow overweight cars..... Other than Tag Mclaren, there is not much Porsche in F1.

 

Porsche could be a great constructor in F1, but the family have never been willing to invest the money needed. The last F1 engine with Arrows was a huge disaster... Piech would not allow Porsche funding to flow to build a state of the art engine, so they cobbled together a huge overweight engine. It did sound great... I remember hearing it in the pits. What I also remember there were only 5 guys from Porsche looking after 7 engines..... My Dad at the time said, they are done before they begin, and he was right.

Porsche have the expertise for sure. but like in Indy cars, they just did not want to listen to the locals, and by the time they got to a place where they could win... they pulled the financial plug. Say what you will about the Porsche/ Piech family.... they do think with a business head. I think the other thing that made Porsche crazy with F1 in the 80's was Ecclestone... Piech did not like him, and Ferry distrusted him..... a battle of ego and will.

 

I always thought Porsche decided not to be involved in single-seater series, because they cannot sell the cars.
I don't think it's about money, but contact with the customers. Porsche is in grassroot motorsport too.
That has been their philosophy all along: to sell the cars they race, and get an income from it.
Over more than 5 decades, they have supported privaters, small teams, and importers by offereing the same cars the factory raced.
You cannot do that in F1, so the relation between Porsche and its supporters would be different.
It seems they are not interested in only selling hats !

 

Ooof!

 

Umm, No. If you read Ferry's biography, he states that Formula One had no technical relevance to Porsche compared to the cost. Yes there is some philosophy of selling customer race cars, but if you really look at it things like the 904, RSK spyder etc... were not widely sold or available to others. 908, 910, and 917 were all sold - after the factory teams proved them, but it was not a huge money maker, rather a cost deferral for the racing team and development cost. The Porsche Family have always been Motorsports enthusiasts, and have liked racing from the very beginning, but only if someone was paying the freight. even when Ferdinand I was doing Auto Unions, it was the govt paying the development cost. Cistialia, and even the initial 356 development were all funded with others money.... The Porsche family has very infrequently put their own cash at stake... the 917 being about the only real motorsport investment that came from them... the Berlin - Rome car was the initial 356 car... and was initiated by a customer... and Hitler's KDF - VW engine. I think Porsche just could not make the numbers work for a viable F1 attempt. Its a very Porsche like response. sensible, reasonable and practical.

 

Its funny on the selling hat comment. Porsche is a client of mine, and they are really envious of Ferrari's halo and ability to sell swag. Porsche has been making an effort to move in to a "lifestyle" brand... but its not going well. In my opinion they simply don't understand their customers. They THINK its all really wealthy people, but in reality the majority are the same people who buy a Mercedes, BMW, and Range Rover... not 911 GT3RS or 918's.... they have priced their swag way over the market, and frankly its only the sports car guys who buy the stuff. They are literally scratching their heads trying to figure out why.... I cant go in to more detail but its a real problem for them.