iS SYNTHETIC OIL REALLY A GOOD IDEA IN AN OLD CAR?

My Testas a 1990 and of course it first came out in 84 when there were no synthetic oil and we just used a good 10w50. Now with the advent of better oils, semi and fully synthetic is there any advantage to using these in an old engine? Infact is it a good or bad thing? Some say because fully synthetic is so thin it can even leak out, so should we continue using mineral oils or move over to the synthetic?

 

My car was switched to synthetic oil at about 110,000 miles by the previous owner. It ran with Penzoil synthetic for another 30,000 miles and has had nothing but Mobil synthetic since. Not a single leak with 178,000 miles.

Then again it's not a Ferrari, but I thought I'd share anyway.

 

It doesn't matter what kind of oil you decide to try-whether synthetic or hydrocarbon oil. The SAE has changed the specification of the modern oils to work best for modern cars and "older car" owners had best heed that warning to use oils that were originally specified by the manufacturers of the OEM cars. For your F testarossa built in the 1980's get the older formulation SH or earlier oils in 10W40 0r 15W50 depending on the operating temperature of your local climate. The new "better?" oils with SAE SJ/M or later have less zddp (an anti-wear additive which is known to shorten the lifetime of the newer catalytic converters) and so if you use these your valve train and other high stressed wear parts are no longer given enough protection and will wear out faster.

So the answer to your question is maybe if the choice of oils has the older 0.2% zddp specs.
A search of Pelicanparts.com 911 technical forum gives a good long discussion of what oils to use for older 911's

 

My Range Rover leaks like a bucket now after switching to synthetic, but who knows it probably just about time to leak anyways. Afterall it's a Bristish.

 

I put full synthetic in my subaru at 50K miles and within days it leaked out the front seal and contaminated the timing belt. I have heard that you should start from day one with synthetic or run the risk of leaky seals. However, If no leaks arise, I would go with the modern technology myself. We run Mobil one in the Mondial without any leaks whatsoever.
dave

 

It's not only due to leaks.
IMO, if your engine has been run with a non-detergent mineral oil for the majority of its life, you should stick to the non-detergent mineral oil you have been using. Switching to a detergent synthetic oil will un-lodge sludge and put into suspension everything that the non-detergent mineral oil had left behind causing various engine problems. Wait until you rebuild the engine (which I hope you will never require) or at least, although not recommended, if you really want to switch to a detergent synthetic oil, drop the oil pan and clean it thoroughly. You will need to change the oil countless times until the oil, after running for an hour or two, stays clean. You can even drive the car for 1000 miles with changes every 100 or so miles. You can also use an engine flush product.

 

Your Testarossa was originally equipped with Agip SINT 2000. SINT is a "para-synthetic" or a synthetic additive package added to a petroleum base stock. If you do a search, you can find as many opinions on this topic as there are about timing belts but synthetic oils were a part of your cars original and recommended fill...

 

AGIP Sint 2000

Ester-based Semi-Synthetic

Synthetic motor oil with exceptional lubrication properties under all climate conditions for all gasoline and diesel engines with or without turbocharger. High quality synthetic oil based on AGIP's ester-technology ensures a quick build up of oil pressure at low temperatures and reduces wear at cold starts. The proven fuel economy Energy Conserving is minimum 2.4%. This lubricant gives maximum protection also for extended service intervals when prescribed by the manufacturer.

Exceeds these specifications:
- ACEA: A3/B3/B4
- API: SL/CF
- VW: 500.00/505.00
- CCMC: G5/PD-2
- FORD: EU-2C 9011-A / US M2C 153-E

 

As previously posted, your car came with synthetic from the factory. If you took it to any FNA dealer they are going to recommend Shell Ultra Helix 5w-40. I would use the synthetic, and not worry a bit about it. If the car starts leaking, fix the leaks or go back to mineral based until you can fix the leaks.

 

All common mineral based dino oils have detergents in them. You would have to look long and hard to find the non detergent ones. I would believe this is a non issue for this gentleman.

 

You know, I haven't seen a non-detergent oil for almost thirty years here. Last time I used some was for my Dad's lawn tractor.

 

You are so right Peter. But one place I always see non detergent oil?...Dollar stores and mini marts! No kidding.

 

Mobil and Shell still produce them locally, here in Egypt.

 

Synthetics are much better than the old dino-oil. I don't know what you mean by "so thin it can even leak out". It depends on the viscosity. I use Castrol TWS 10w60 and it is THICK. Besides what holes do you have in your engine for it to leak out?

 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=367300

Long thread with much useful info regarding what oils are good for 1980's cars needing added valve train protection that newer oils don't provide anymore. Inside that is a list of oils that people use which are available today.

 

I started using Mobil 1(use Redline products last 20 yrs or so) in 1976 in my Corvettes a '75 and '69 427 the engines ran smoother and the valve covers were amazingly clean on the inside and stayed that way. I didn't have anymore leaks than I had before. All Chevys at that time leaked some no matter how hard you tried to seal things.

 

I use Agip SINT2000 in my 308 which is what was originally called for. 'Modern' SINT2000 is semi-synthetic so I'm going to assume the 'original' SINT2000 was as well? For whatever it's worth my car uses no oil between 3K services with 86K on the engine.

Cheers;
Aaron
'82 GTSi

 

Not a super expert like many others here. But have 1 car that runs and was factory prescribed synthetic since new - still use synthetic. Have one car (Ferrari) that was made for "regular" oil and I still use regular ... I don't know, kind of makes simple sence to me ...

 

This is '90 TR that has had Mobil1 full synthetic for the last 10 years in it. No leakage of note... perfectly clean internals thanks to a great detergent package... the most stable viscosity over temp that is available... resonably priced...

I won't run anything else in the TR.

That photo says it all...

Rgds,
Vince
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We were using synthetics in our race bikes in the late 70s, early 80s. Great stuff, made more power, and kept the engine pretty clean to boot. British cars will leak, no matter what type of oil you use. I've got a 1977 triumph bonnie, and we had to lap the cases to stop the leaks, and even now they still weep on occassion.

Art

 

Is synthetic oils recycled too.

 

That's been my philosophy too; stick with dino. I use 20W50 and will not even think about synthetic until I change the valve guides.

Ken

 

I tried Mobil 1 synthetic (think it was 15W-50) about a year ago in my 79 Boxer. I can't say it leaked more but it did smoke more on startup and a bit upon acceleration. I switched back to Castrol 20W-50 and absolutely no smoke; just a little puff on startup. I have no idea why but there was a noticable difference.

I think Frank Parker experienced the same thing on his injected Boxer.

Drew

 

"Dino" oil is made up of an entire array of carbon & hydrogen chain molecules.
From the lightest gases it grows:
~ methane CH4
~ ethane C2H6
~ propane C3H8
~ etc
They start to become heavy enough to remain liquid at room temp as they grow in size:
~ Octane C8H18 (yeah - thats where 'High Octane' comes from)
~ etc
They start to become heavy enough to remain solid at room temp as they grow in size:
~ paraffin C20H42
~ etc
~ etc

Dino oil uses a cracking system (just like your moonshine still) at the refiner to take a 'cut' of the various molecule sizes from the overall stream of crude oil. The cut is not precise, nor perfect. An entire array of molecule sizes wind up in that oil can. The sizes of the molecules range widely... from the gases that vent off (vapor pressure)... to the heavy paraffins that collect on the bottom of your oil sump. We've all seen that "residual cr*p" (a technical term) that used to be in our pans 20 years ago! All these molecules are all in that mix of 'dino' oil.

Instead of cracking, synthetic oil 'builds' the molecules to a predetermined size. The size of the molecules are much more precisely uniform in the resulting synthetic oil. This uniformity allows the manufacturer the ability to much more precisely control the qualities (viscosity) and properties (change of vis with temp) of the remaining product. Add to this, an economic ability to include a superior detergent package (people are willing to pay more for synthetic) and what you get is a far superior product.

Leaks(?) Yeah... the higher quality detergents losen up that "residual cr*p" (a technical term) that has built up in place of your seals thanks to 'dino' oil deposits. The fix - replace the seal.

Valve guides(?) Yeah... the detergents losen up that "residual cr*p" (a technical term) that has built up in place of your valve guide seals thanks to the 'dino' oil deposits. The fix - replace the seal.

Smoke on acceleration(?) Yeah... the detergents losen up that "residual cr*p" (a technical term) that has built up in place of your piston rings thanks to the 'dino' oil deposits. The fix - replace the rings.

Damaged metalurgy(?)... No way - the properties and qualities of synthetic are FAR superior.

The only thing going into my TR is Mobil1.

The photo said it all!

Rgds,
Vince

PS: If I ever get a P-car... I'll keep dino oil in it ;-)

 

Well, my car has no valve guide seals. Lotus must have figured they weigh too much ;>)

Ken