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is the bubble due to burst?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by PFSEX, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    That's a trade I would do. If I ever buy another Ferrari, which appears unlikely, I'd go for an F430. As good as a Maranello is, it is still a GT. It is not a sports car.
     
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  3. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    #2752 davidoloan, Oct 9, 2016
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  4. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Well, as much as I love that 550, at this point in my life I'm much more suited to that 360/F430 mid engined package. My 360 is set up with a combination of Challenge Stradale and Challenge parts (but it's a manual) so it's pretty raw while my F430 is like a gentlemanly version of that chassis package but with virtually the same power and torque as my 550. It's a very nice spec and it's a very suitable replacement to my 550. It really can do anything.
     
  5. technom3

    technom3 F1 Veteran
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    This is true.

    I was offered a very similar car (same color combo same year) 550 with similar miles that was a salvage title. Its possible this is the same car. Mecum will announce salvage at the auction. However, if someone "washed" the title they would not know the salvage history.

    The hood fits poorly on this car and the front bumper is painted incorrectly along with the furry dash and doors... this is a cheap car for the sake of being cheap.
     
  6. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

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    I would have loved to have it for that money. What a great buy.
     
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  8. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    Looks like mention of the name "Sir Elton John" adds about 20,000 to the asking price.
     
  9. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Can it make coffee? ;)
     
  10. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #2758 sherpa23, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    It can take me to get coffee. Does that count?

    Fwiw, there are some Ferraris that I seriously love that I don't currently own (550, 348, 355, Scud, etc) but since I can't have them all (room, time to care for them, interest in owning so many), I have to choose the best ones for me and my needs. But it should go without saying that there are some exceptional cars that I don't have.

    I do think I need to add a Scud and get back to four F's.
     
  11. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2759 MS250, Oct 14, 2016
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    My single mirror Testarossa can .... My wife made a good few cups of espresso for our trip at the beginning of the summer
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  13. Four7EightBHP

    Four7EightBHP Formula Junior
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    Feb 20, 2005
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    728 Ferraris for sale on eBay this morning. Most of the cars are from the modern era.

    I've been watching this for 15 years and never seen the 700 level broken. This is a simple data point that would need further analysis. I'm sure eBay knows what it means.
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Great points. I think what also drives things is cars cost money to keep, a lot of it. Even if you dont run the car, there is storage and insurance, keeping car running which is im important for resale is not free. On a 200k or 300k "colelctable car, the keeping costs add up pretty quick, and you need the type of apprecoation or apreciatrion runup we are unlikely to see.

    Except maybe insuarnce, the costs to keep a 5 mill 60s ferrari are not so hugely different to the costs to keep a 100K Tr.
     
  15. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2004
    428
    I have been watching the market for 4 years. Art has taken a significant dive. Last I checked Ferraris are off around 25%. I have been called pessimistic but I'm expecting a further decline. Hold on to your wallets. If you own a Ferrari in my opinion do not sell. If you want to talk in more detail you can pm me.
     
  16. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
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    I have also noticed a significant slow down in 60-70s Mercedes, I follow the Pagoda market very closely, and prices are coming down.

    I am also noticing the same with Gullwings - still far from their 2008-2010 prices, but without a doubt down.

    We may be seeing a "generational" shift, interesting times ahead indeed.
     
  17. pauls

    pauls Formula Junior

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  18. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

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    I don't see many so called "millennials" getting into this market any time soon.

    One is interesting point to note is that is phenomenal increase in value (70 to now) has been generated mostly within the baby boomers generation.

    Predicting the future has never been a sensible task, but it would not be surprising if in 20-30 years time when some cars come to the market due to succession/inheritance demand would be considerably less.

    Would a 15/20 year old today see value in paying single or double digit million dollars for a 1960s car when she/he is 50/60?

    Of course such a long term predictions also involve variables such as value of money, inflation, etc.

    We often read that the market for these cars is small, but the amount of of individuals willing to buy is also limited, and price isn't the only factor, there simply is no interest at any price.

    One could also add a "gender" shift - I have noticed in my work and social field that in the last 20 years the amount of wealthy women has definitely increased. One could say that as wealth is more evenly distributed amoungst men and women, the relative amount of men willing to purchase would be less, a woman would typically be more inclined to purchase other goods. As a point, how many women are on the entire FerrariChat forum?

    Interesting times indeed...perhaps these prized assets to will become just old cars again.


    Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk
     
  19. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

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    #2766 thepinkumbrella, Oct 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Boy, it feels like 1989.

    Except that Jaguar hasn't sued customers to take delivery of the C-X75. Yet.

    Matt
     
  21. ddxanh2613

    ddxanh2613 Rookie

    Oct 22, 2016
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    If so, coming back to it, has your opinion on warmed, cooled, or do feel the same?
     
  22. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
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    #2769 Bradwilliams, Oct 23, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
    I'm in the millenial category (born in 83)

    I have plenty of friends scattered all over the country that have years ago since reached a point in which they are making really good coin. I know of only 1 that owns a classic or vintage car. ONE. I have 828 facebook friends. A .02% ownership rate (me included). Nobody in my age group wants them or owns them. And many of them think that I'm nuts for having them.
     
  23. ASK328

    ASK328 Formula 3
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    U know what your 828 "friends" drive and collect...... all of them?

    If u look at stats hardly any early 30's kids make any real "coin". Most all late 20's and ealry 30's people are stone broke - with massive negative net worth if they had been "fortunate" enough to go to college.
     
  24. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
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    #2771 Bradwilliams, Oct 23, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
    I can tell you right now, at least a dozen to twenty of them are pulling in 200-400k. Real estate, tech consulting, entreprenuers, 1/3 I'd say are doctors. One of my closest friends was already a millionaire at 29. The only guy I know that loves cars as much or more as I do. Drives a 2011 BMW M3. DOES NOT OWN A VINTAGE CAR.Almost all are self made, minus one or two. One has just finished residency, is now a neurosurgeon. Pulls almost 700k. Same age as me. Still doesn't have a collector car and actually likes cars.

    Never said they all drive and collect. Re-read my post. out of the 828 friends I have on there, almost all are in my age-bracket. And only 1 owns a classic. 2 people out of 828. And ironically enough, the 1 guy that does, is NOT in that high income bracket, he makes a very modest salary and comes from a wealthy family.
     
  25. mchas

    mchas F1 Veteran
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    Same is true of my close friends. All in their 30s and many of them have always liked cars, but only one or two own anything nice (F-type and Audi S5). Similar mix, software guys, doctors, etc. making serious money.
     
  26. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    430
    NYC/CT
    Well, none of this is surprising. If you've been making 200-400 (or even "almost 700") for only a handful of years then a collector car is a bit of a stretch in my opinion - they are typically of limited practical use so can't be your only car and are typically more expensive to purchase and maintain. The reason people usually get involved in classic cars later in life is not just that they have higher incomes but, more importantly, have had time to accumulate some networth that gives them the confidence to indulge in luxuries like this. Classic cars are a luxury and if despite you high income you still have some loans outstanding (as many young doctors would) are yet to buy a home or upsize your home they just wouldn't be your first thought...
     
  27. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
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    A friend of mine is actively trading youngtimers (BMW M3, M5, Alpina etc) and has very little problems shifting them. In my experience few doctors and RE traders are into actual ownership of youngtimers or classics. In my experience owners are mostly entrepeneurs and tech, and often it is not the higher net worth people as those are far too busy working.
     
  28. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I have no doubt there is a major generational shift in demand. As a rule of thumb, Millennials dislike anything their parents liked, which should not be surprising. Moreover, if it ain't on the web, it doesn't exist. I have had young people tell me they wouldn't buy from someone because they didn't like their website. Instead of hiding Road and Track or Hot Rod inside their textbooks during class, Millennials were texting away about who knows what.

    Currently, we are seeing the X'ers step up to the plate, hence the recent popularity of the Magnum cars. But I predict they will not have much effect on the vintage market because (1) their demographic population is only half the size of the Boomers and Millennials, (2) the truly great cars of the '60s are way beyond their reach, and (3) they will not have much interest in Lussos and the other less desirable '60s Ferraris.

    So what's going to happen to the SWBs and alloy 275s? I'm guessing they will remain in family estates and eventually end up in a museum. Nothing lasts forever.
     

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