is the bubble due to burst?

thanks sherpa, by no means do i have a monopoly on intelligence but there is a certain way to make a point. If pete feels the market is rich thats fine, but it doesnt mean someone is a fool for buying a car they like. There is no need to be derogatory - taking a derogatory tone makes it sound like the person is jealous/envious/malicious. Life is short and none of these toys are a necessity. There is nothing rational about buying a ferrari. Ive been buying cars since 1998 and i have bought through peaks and valleys and i have been lucky enough to underpay in certain situations and ive intentionally overpaid for cars because i wanted something specific or timely.

If the world falls apart, and i think it will - cars will go down with it. If i continue to be wrong and the world muddles along with zero rates cars too will be range bound. I congratulate anyone who is able to make acquisitions today and any other day.

 

and fwiw, we are 3 months away from this thread being 4 years old. If anyone held off on buying a ferrari because of this thread they've missed out on a great deal of enjoyment and pleasure.

 

[If the world falls apart, and i think it will - cars will go down with it. If i continue to be wrong and the world muddles along with zero rates cars too will be range bound.

I congratulate anyone who is able to make acquisitions today and any other day.[/QUOTE]

this

 

Lol whatever u say ok I shouldn't disagree with them
I have my opinion have been on here a long time a lot of bullying big egos here by some I could care less if they try and dominate or push me around

Cnpapa and I had a bad dealing on my car with the guy he brought up to inspect it then continued to bash it here calling it a parts car I have my own opinion of him after that

 

No sour grapes here; I don't sell without buying something else, so it doesn't matter much to me. In fact I have said that the market has cooled and is currently stabilizing for top condition cars and corrected for lesser condition cars, which is healthy in my opinion. I do post data points from time to time as a guide for those that are in the market that are looking for comps.

It is curious how you were helping others when you were singing the praises of the market when you owned one that was on the market. Or are you only helping them now by calling potential buyers fools and screaming doomsday whilst shopping for a Countach or wanting to buy your Boxer back at fire sale prices?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143338978-post95.html

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143341855-post111.html

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143349400-post129.html

No matter the market, my stance is you should buy the car you want when you have found the one that speaks to you and can afford it without it affecting your lifestyle.

 

That was two years ago, get over it. For the record, I never called it a parts cars. I did say AFTER you had sold it and after Gullwing had sold it that it was in need of a restoration and I hoped that the buyer knew what he was getting into as Gullwing is notorious for moving cars along with little info:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143429873-post10.html

In fact my next post was congratulating you on your sale. And always, we can agree to disagree, now let's move forward.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143438334-post19.html

 

No real fight here on my end; I just find it interesting when there is a change in tune based on what side of the market one is on.

And thank you for the kind words. I have bought cars in all markets and they have all been at "foolish" prices at the time when put into perspective.

 

On another note, saw my first F12 TDF in the flesh today. From what I heard these sell for 2X list if you can get someone to sell to you.

I still dont understand the instant classic market, but I guess if you have the $$$ and gotta have it and there are very few to none for sale, then the price is the price.

 

I think myself and others have issues with the rampant speculation and justification that most any car ie modern Ferrari 6 speeds, 550s, 993s are now considered collectible and have large inflated prices, my posts are merely a public service announcement to those that will fall into the hype to invest as most every classic car show on TV chants What's my Car Worth Legendary Motor Cars etc. I have owned Ferraris since early 2000 and the cars haven't changed but the hype has a different mentality now and buyer speculator.

I get sticker shock on some of these prices asked its pure greed and has effected my hobby as I refuse to participate pushing prices further up by buying, If I can help others at the same time by informing them of risks they probably have not realisticly thought of as to being caught up in the gotta buy now before they get too expensive the sooner the speculators will get burned and get out.

 

so much love on this page, think I will just move on..

 

Just like a "Maintain The Love" Subaru page!

 

We live in a world where people pay 9 million bucks for a number plate. That same person just last year spent close to 7 million for a number plate.

It's not about the cars, it's about who can spend the most money on silly unneeded items. Enjoy keeping up with the joneses.

 

Wise words.

 

Very wise. Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.

 

If anyone has or hasn't read Mike S's latest article, it's quite interesting, and massively spot on (for the current "un-accepters"). SCM puts it in your face; the very best, on the cover, 2 at high sale prices!, but they don't mention the other 6 that no-saled, and didn't even hit low reserve.

Important cars will always sell for decent/big(er) money, but that leaves the other 90% at the hands of what the buyer is willing to jump in it.

 

"un-accepters", eh? Is that akin to a climate-change denier?

 

Sheehan basically has the same opinion as many including myself on the market, unaccpeters Lol spot on.

Those that disagree get bashed here lol, the market will continue up good time to buy, judgement bad as some of the combovers I have seen.

 

No bashing, just a fair exchange of opinions and ideas, its all good.

As Ive said before, each phase of a market represents some opportunities, and I for one am encountering some great ones.

As always, the old adage always serves owners well, find the best cars and buy them.

If you think of the market as a car's tire, the premise of this thread suggests that at some point there is due to be a catastrophic failure, whereas the reality is, like a tire, its more of a reduced tire pressure. As anyone who has been waiting the past 3 years that this thread has been running for the bargain of a lifetime, they probably havent found it yet.

The reality is that for some of the more prolifically-produced cars, this is a buyer's market. Same is true with cars that have issues or are less-desirable variants.

I could personally walk you through every single one of the cars you are interested in on the advertised market (Countach) and make a case for why you pass on that particular car in favor of something better in terms of less-desirable variants, modified cars or poorly-presented cars.

Which is exactly why they remain on the market.

There is a lot out there in the market looking for easy upside because of the run-up of 2013 - 2015. You simply have to be selective, and know what you are looking for.

All that said, some of the rarest and very best cars are still bringing strong money.

 

I think the market is set to go higher, much higher.

This is just a small correction down. Most I'm seeing down is maybe 30% right now on some models compared to the highest I saw. I think that presents a tremendous opportunity to buy some nice cars!

 

Even at a 30% correction off 1-2 years ago as in the case of some the more prolifically-produced models, they are still way ahead of where they were 5 years ago!

I concur with your overall view.

 

Petearron, just to help you along with your assessment of the market that we call Ferrari, as Joe has already stated, the very best and rare cars still bring very strong money. I can confirm this from a very recent transaction that generated near enough a record price for a great car, price bracket 1-2 Million USD. I hope this helps with your assessment.

 

Yep I think the 20-30% figure is generaly accepted as deflation off peak price, but that is still multiples above market compared to 5 years ago.

There also seems to be an undersatndign that rare exceptional pieces are subject to different forces and therefore more immune to price deflation downturns.

And we all probably can agree that serialy produced items rose last and have fallen the most, not least because there was so much unrealistic hype to uninformed buyers.

There are aslo certain limited areas of the market that are gaining traction, really quality E30 m3s for exmple.

But in general current prices across a fairly broad range are 20-030% off peak.

I can also say that I agree with Sherpas premise. Essentialy global money supply has been doubled and if there is going to be less trust in paper going forwards the money will move even more into tangible assets. Therefore whatever happens negatively in the car market over the next year will be seen to be irrelevant a few years from now.

Assuming of course that there is not a global depression.

 

The super rare Ferraris possibly but things have gotten way out of hand any car is now collectible. Sheehan summed it up well fools in denial and acceptance of reality but does it in a eloquent way not to offend I am more blunt to the point don't candy coat things not my nature the best lessons I have learned in life have been harsh like that but back to the point the market has not had a good catalyst to free fall yet it will come

But don't let me stop you pay up push the market higher lol

 

lol your toy collection don't count

 

which cars do you own today and how much are they down from when you bought them?