is the bubble due to burst? | Page 165 | FerrariChat

is the bubble due to burst?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by PFSEX, Jan 18, 2013.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Maranello Marshall

    Apr 19, 2019
    2
    Central FL
    Full Name:
    Kerry M. Bogard
    In my humble opinion- they only look good in Nero Black as those 'rubber duck' bumpers don't show-up so vividly. Had a Black /Tan and it's a really Great, lumbering Beauty. Car linked here says 'project car', and it certainly is.
     
  2. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    3,232
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    That is a daunting number for a 365GTC
     
    roma1280 likes this.
  3. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,887
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    #4103 TTR, Mar 28, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2024
    ... but realistic to any 365, be it GT 2+2, BB, B/4, C/4, etc, (or similarly complex & equipped models) needing a "full restoration" .
     
    Bowzer likes this.
  4. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,887
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    … i.e. expecting everything in it to be, look and work “as new”, since to accomplish all that will require several thousand hours of labor + materials/parts/etc…

    Anything less is not “full”.
     
    Bowzer likes this.
  5. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    3,232
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    I bought 365GTC #10581 from Luigi Chinetti in June 1978; paid $25,000. or $5,000.-6,000. over market for an 'ordinary' GTC. This car was a 330GTC with a factory-installed typ 245 4.4 liter engine that had been commanded by the Commendatore for his friend Leopoldo Pirelli, CEO of an Italian tire company, with whom I had direct personal correspondence confirming that indeed I had his old car. It was in good but well-used condition. I engaged Nereo Iori, who had been the top racing wrench for Chinetti's NART race team, to do a complete mechanical restoration of the car. EVERYTHING was apart; Iori even line-bored the crankshaft and camshafts BY HAND. I thought I was stealing from him when his total charges came to $25K - but bear in mind this is almost a half century ago. When I got my car back, driving it felt like dancing with a ballerina. Writing this, I miss her so.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    BJK, beng, Zanny1 and 9 others like this.
  6. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,887
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    And now, “almost half a century” later that same extent/quality, i.e. properly done “complete mechanical (only) restoration” can easily cost +/- ten times what you paid back then.
    Add all convenience accessories, body & paint work, bright work/trim, electrical, upholstery etc. and another $250K can easily go in to it.
     
    Bowzer likes this.
  7. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    3,232
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    Timo, the best Pebble Beach quality paint ship in southern California did the paint a year later, a custom View attachment 3664028 burgundy, for $8K and a close friend, Lyle Tanner, did the leather seating and Wilton carpets in return for some legal services I had provided him.
     

    Attached Files:

    BJK, ggjjr and Texas Forever like this.
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    I believe that was the original color of my old GTC. It got painted resale red.
     
  9. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    2,038
    I am with Timo, no problem putting $300-500K into a FULL restoration on one of these cars today. Do you have any idea how much it costs to restore a Chrysler "Letter" car today, and they are JUST an old American car.
     
    TTR likes this.
  10. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,887
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    And today, that same quality paint job can also easily cost ten times what you paid back then. No surprises there. What was the hourly labor charge for that quality back then ?
     
  11. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,887
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    Having done a few in past 4 decades, I do, and lets not forget, there's not a single Ferrari with equivalent amount square footage of paintable surface.
    I'd be surprised if 365 GTC has 2/3, meaning any Chrysler "Letter" will require at least 1/3 more hours to accomplish same quality paint job, not to mention more accessories, options, trim (which "Letter" cars have a lot less than other Chrysler's of same era), etc...
     
  12. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,887
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    EDIT:
     
  13. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2010
    4,831
    Palm Beach, Roma
    Not liking these sale numbers for a 250 SWB 3169gt a matching number Ferrari classiche example selling for $5.8m and a LWB 250 Cal Spider for $5.5m. I know there’s a little bit of a story with the engine stamping on the Cal spider but even so, unless there is something I’m missing these are pretty astonishing drops from the highest valuations. I would say 50 to 75%.
     
    jjmalez likes this.
  14. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    14,599
    Full Name:
    Juan
    Interesting, I wonder what year the Cal Spider that was at Toni in Modena. I remember seeing a black one there when we visited in 2017. That's a really neat family shop. I'll have to see if I can find pictures. Seems I recall a small garden and maybe chickens or a dog house and pen.


    View attachment 3683335 Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login View attachment 3683340 Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    34,428
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion

    Highest non comp lwb cal spider was high bid at 9.4m.

    Highest sold was 9m.

    So a good 30% drop but as you said, some stamping history..and of course different world than even 2019.. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    13,648
    High bid means nothing.
     
    toparkt, Marcel Massini and miurasv like this.
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    It means the chandelier.

    Marcel Massini
     
    roma1280 and energy88 like this.
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,860
    Those valuations were pure fantasy and dreaming.
    The world has changed dramatically (you know it even better than I).
    Think demographics, US presidency, economy, recession (Germany!), Covid, interest rates, inflation, wars in Europe and Gaza, EU that forces people to electric cars, all the mass media nonsense, and on and on.
    Lots of people with plenty of cash around but they are all sitting on their hands, basically paralyzed.
    Not a good environment to sell this kind of luxury that nobody really neeeds to survive.

    Marcel Massini
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,744
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    RM Sotheby's 250 GT Cabriolet Series 1 0849 GT just bid to 4.2 million Euros.
     
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,744
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    RM Sotheby's 250 GT/L Lusso 4267 GT just bid to 1.2 million Euros.
     
  21. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    13,648
    Many No Sales at RMS.
     
    amenasce likes this.
  22. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    34,428
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion

    Attached Files:

  23. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,744
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #4124 miurasv, May 11, 2024
    Last edited: May 11, 2024
    Classiche Certified in 2011 does not mean it is Certified now. Non original colour?

    Says matching numbers engine so probably non matching gearbox. Nothing about the body being original, so????

    On the plus side Bacchelli & Villa did some work on it, albeit years ago, and a nice Luppi interior.
     
    readplays likes this.
  24. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,744
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    0849 has been Classiche Red Book Certified since the last auction too, and is now with the correct drum brakes. What originally happened to the engine for it to get separated for so long? Does it have a repaired cylinder block or something? I see it has a Classiche stamp on it.
     

Share This Page