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Is the Monza selling?

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by BarryK, May 1, 2019.

  1. mycatisholdingmehostage

    Jan 19, 2018
    43
    Full Name:
    Alex
    As I wrote my post I worried about two things:
    1. Some would think I was calling them out because I referenced their post.
    2. Some would think I don’t want any negative comments about a car.
    For #1, I don’t mean to pick on a post or criticize any one person. I grabbed a quote to use it as an example and I don’t mean to imply that person was the problem. It’s a general theme not a specific person or post.

    For #2, I mention in my post that I like discussion and different opinions. I don’t need a self congratulating site where we all tell each other how great we are (I pay my mom for that). I already know what I like so hearing what other people like is insightful.

    It’s a subtle difference and I’ll use the SF90 discussion as an example because it was much more extreme. The topic was about the reveal of the SF90 and, for pages and pages it turned into why Ferrari was behind the times because they didn’t offer a carbon tub and stayed with aluminum. That would normally be fine but it quickly escalated into “McLaren is crushing Ferrari because of the carbon tub.”, “Ferrari is just gouging customers because they refuse to go carbon tub”, “It’s all about money and Ferrari doesn’t care about their cars any more”. It continued with countless posts about how amazing McLaren is and how they are destroying Ferrari and Ferrari has lost it. Those posts were so strong and so frequent I actually thought it could be from McLaren’s marketing department. Even a few members got banned because they were going too far.

    In the middle of all that was a great discussion of the pros and cons of carbon tubs vs aluminum. Some members had strong views why Ferrari was missing out and that’s OK. I don’t need only “your car is great” talk. I can read a different opinion, have a good cry, rock myself to sleep and come back the next day stronger than ever (most of the time). Trouble is, it was pages and pages of “Ferrari is crap and you are wrong for liking them” with just a few good posts of discussion sprinkled in between.

    Now that the SF90 launched? “Ferrari has lost it, the car is too heavy”, “The battery can only do one lap and then we’re down to a mere 770hp? What junk, this is the end of Ferrari”. On and on it goes with no substance. Just opinion, speculation, and bashing with no one having driven or seen a review of the car.

    This Monza discussion had posts about decapitation and deadly tires to the face. It was interesting (unfortunate but interesting) and didn’t bother me. The bothersome part was the rally behind it saying those that chose to drive this were crazy, Ferrari was irresponsible for making it, and the car was pointless. Back in the vortex we go. Criticism with discussion is good. Criticism with insults and nothing else is what I’m referring to.

    If I’m enjoying my ice cream and someone wants to tell me that strawberry is harder to make and chocolate has downsides because the chemicals used to make it, I’ll think they’re weird but hey... I might learn something about chocolate vs strawberry ice cream. If someone just tells me my ice cream is pointless and and I’m silly for enjoying it then I’m looking for another table.

    With all that said, I don't want to be part of the downer crowd and post over and over about why there's too much negativity. I recognize the irony in that. I've probably made my point too often with too many long posts so I'll spare everyone any more of my opinion. It is the internet after all. I can't expect every post to be a beacon of positive and rational discussion. Where's the fun in that? ;)
     
  2. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    13,390
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    The negativity does have a price in that a number of individuals have departed Fchat taking their knowledge and in some cases unique Ferrari experiences with them. The majority lose out with this result.
     
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  3. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2016
    956
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    I think you answered the central question yourself when you say "Even a few members got banned because they were going too far.". If at some point the moderators need to step in for whatever reason, then those define the bounds of acceptable discussion. And if those easily offended members prefer it, they could create a separate P&R section (Philosophy & Rants) for each new launch since that's where majority of the comments you refer to are.
     
    tkachguy likes this.
  4. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula Junior

    Feb 10, 2005
    750
    Miami Beach
    Did GT8 have an identical motor and drivetrain that had passed EPA certification?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  5. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    5,948
    Upstate, NY
    Full Name:
    Christian
    If you can’t drive it on the street (US)..it’s a multi-million dollar paper weight, IMO . Sure you could take it to the track...I think for the money, you could buy a far superior track/race car and have a lot more fun driving it.
     
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  6. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2004
    626
    I bought 11 new cars. Still didn’t make it to Icona. I am vip not top level.
    Now, this got me thinking what is the point of being made as top to gain access to Icona. Sure it will earn money in the long run but for this I have to buy uninteresting cars for my taste and worrying all the way through if I make it top or if I lose top status by not buying enough.

    I am in the mind process of giving up all this getting top status to gain access to mystry Icona then hyper.

    I now actually think I will be better off buying chiron and be done with ICE cars. What is the point of being made while not enjoying the process. So guys you have one less contender for next Icona :)
     
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  7. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,233
    Surely Corse Clienti owners are at the top. Maybe get an ex/retired-F1 car instead of a Chiron? I think it would be a better choice. :)
     
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  8. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2004
    626
    Good point but I am afraid chiron is cheaper? Besides I am into road cars :)
     
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  9. George330

    George330 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2009
    765
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    I thought some Fchat members here said that the Monza was not selling? I’ve heard similar stories from other VIP clients, who were also told there is no chance to get a car.
    It looks like the road to the next hypercar has become very competitive...I don’t think it is a question of investment value, I don’t think these cars are investments anyway...I think Ferrari want to ensure that anyone who ends up getting the next LaF has a serious, long term commitment to the brand and given how important the brand is to lots of people, the entry ticket costs a lot. If you really don’t want to buy most of the regular models, you’re probably not the type of client Ferrari want to invest in. No offence intended, I just think Ferrari want clients who consistently buy all kinds of regular production models, including Portofino and Lusso, broaden the impact of the brand and then get access to the special models too.

    BTW I hear that the next Icona will be offered first to existing Icona buyers. If the car is as great as I hear it is, there wont be many cars left...



    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  10. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2004
    626
    None taken.
    You are right and also, by choosing top clients among those who hold their cars and dont sell, like 5 cars in the garage, Ferrari is choosing the people with serious means.

    Anyway, if next Icona is not obtainable then so be it. I will always be a Ferrari fanatic no matter what. I would blame Ferrari for not getting one after all those purchases and devotion, but hey, that is what life is like too right? You can not always get what you want and it is better to focus on future then what happened.

    When the time comes and I am not among the list, I will be free from the burden of ‘oh I have to have one for top tier’ and work way hard for chiron lol. I want to spec my car new so buying used is not the first move :)
     
    jpalmito likes this.
  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula Junior

    Jun 5, 2009
    960
    Le caylar (France)
    All you said is completely logical ,
    Is the next icona a front or rear engine car ?
     
  12. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
    1,814
    Kentucky
    Full Name:
    Anir
    Very well said, Barry.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    May 2, 2010
    3,164
    NYC, PalmBeach, Roma
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Fun but costs about $10,000 a lap to run
     
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  14. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2016
    956
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    While I don't doubt your comment about VIP clients not able to get the car, it was interesting to see at Goodwood a couple of weeks ago, several of the UK dealers at the Monza stand with some VIP clients (some who are very well known by the public) on a sales mission. I even overheard one asking about delivery time frames to his dealer. At least on the face of it, the car is still available, perhaps just not to everyone.

    If the market continues in the current bubble, the next hypercar wiil be very competitive as you say, but that's still 3 or so years away, and it will be interesting to see much of a rush there will be if the market returns to reality in the meantime. All depends on how many of the current buyers are in for the long term.
     
    roma1280 likes this.
  15. 3COL

    3COL Karting

    Jun 12, 2017
    73
    Have an SP2 on order, have specced it, filled out the helmet, shoe, race suit and gloves sizing form, deposit locked etc, and still don’t know when it will arrive - I would be asking whoever were in a position to answer re delivery times too -

    I state again, all allocations are given and deposits in. There is no Monza availability (I know of somebody who has been denied a second car to have the pair, he asks monthly)
     
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  16. George330

    George330 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2009
    765
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    Same here...no idea on delivery time


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  17. George330

    George330 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2009
    765
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    I think the market is already returning to reality...prices are off and many previously unobtainable cars are being offered at prices significantly lower than 2 years ago...at least in Europe

    On the matter of availability, I believe Ferrari always retains a few build slots for top clients. Dealers still have to apply for those and there is hot competition for them, but every limited car has had a handful of clients offered cars very close to the end of production.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  18. victorg

    victorg Rookie

    May 2, 2017
    2
    San Antonio, TX
    Full Name:
    Victor Gonzalez
    I've been offered an allocation, but the price tag is enormous and so is the downside risk. In December I took delivery of a GT2RS at $150k over MSRP, only 1,000 produced, dealers were not able to fully displace at those prices, so the ones they still have are being sold closer to MSRP. Of course Porsche is not Ferrari, but I am still bitter from my loss on a limited production car. If they took my GT2RS at cost, then I would probably go ahead with the Monza, but I don't think they'll give me and SP1 which I feel will be more coveted than the SP2.
     
  19. mycatisholdingmehostage

    Jan 19, 2018
    43
    Full Name:
    Alex
    What was the enormous price tag if I may ask?

    Also why wouldn’t they let you get the SP1 vs SP2? I didn’t figure they cared and you could pick if you got an allocation.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  20. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    11,210
    you cant say one wld surely make money. only way to make money is to be offered a laferrari where they triple in value on size. minus a laf allocation, in my experience over 20 years it's a wash. If you were just to buy the cars you really want in the secondary market you come pretty close, if not ahead, of where you arrive if you play the game and buy 6 to 12+ ferraris you really dont care about. factor in sales tax in the US and you definitely don't win by playing the game. better off paying the premium in the secondary market and keeping your transactions costs as low as possible, fwiw.

    and at some point the market goes away - ie if the LaF replacement is 3M will people actually pay 7 to 9M for it in the secondary? highly unlikely in my eyes.
     
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  21. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    641
    #246 obbob, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    They produced alot more than 1000 GT2 RS. They produced nearly 1000 cars just for US and Canada for just the 2018 calendar year production. And production continued into early 2019. I think the 1000 figure got circulated initially due to rumors started by inaccurate magazine articles.

    The actual production count is much closer to 4000 worldwide, which also helps explain the massive hit in value they took.
     
    Tu160bomber likes this.
  22. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Aug 31, 2001
    2,335
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Porsche WAY overproduced GT cars in 2018. I was in Zuffenhausen July 2018 and saw factory line during tour. Every SECOND car on 911 line last summer was a GT car! Massive overproduction. Get ready, Ferrari is headed that direction as well.

    (D - E - P - R - E - C - I - A - T - I - O - N)
     
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  23. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,262
    I love what Porsche did to correct the ridiculously overinflated trading values of the 911 variants. The 911 R being the most hilarious.
     
    of2worlds and sampelligrino like this.
  24. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    1,058
    UK
    I largely agree but there are others such as the TDF which here in the uk at one point was selling for £650,000 premium over list.

    these days i'm not even sure the la ferrari or hypercars would offset much of the costs required to get one being so high (participation in corse clienti, an fxx car etc)
     
  25. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    1,058
    UK
    it's still not easy to get a gt car but perhaps slightly easier than it was.

    partly what made the 911r so inflated was the manual gearbox, which at the time people thought wasn't going to be in another gt3 style car ever again.
     

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