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Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by BarryK, May 1, 2019.
Where did the wire come from? Did he went off road and drive into some wire?
Fenced with wires.
When I read posts like this, I take comfort from the likelihood that most Monza's will hardly be driven. 800hp + no windscreen is a formula for disaster.
Lol, back to “the Monza is a death machine”. If I showed you a picture of a plane crash would you stop flying?
I think statically it’s pretty safe. To each their own.
I’d love to get back on topic and understand how it’s selling in the US. There must be other buyers on here and I’d ask what the plan is to get it registered. I heard an estimate that about 80 will make it here. Surely one or two will figure out how to get it drivable. Any tips from those with experience?
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It is not a question of one or two cars, it is not road legal in the USA period.
It is not legal to drive it with a dealer plate either. Unless you yourself are a dealer and you can justify why you are on the road with a non-road legal car.
The only hope is that is approved for show and display which is very far from a certainty.
I think most people drive cars because they have no interest in going anywhere near a motorcycle and they certainly don’t want a car which is in the ballpark from a protection perspective. So realistically whether it gets show a display or not most Monzas will never be driven. As to the question of whether they’re selling I think people that were offered the car were in many cases flattered and took it but I predict there is going to be a huge rush for the door in 18 months time when the lock ups end when people appreciate how impractical the car is and what else you can buy both Ferrari and non Ferrari for the same money. If you love the car and want to keep it forever then great, if you are a flipper I would be nervous if I were you.
One additional sweetener will be the fact that SP1/2 buyers will be offered the next Icona first. That is when people who rejected their allocation may wish they hadn’t...
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I finally did some (brief) digging around the nhtsa website and I think I see the issue. No other Ferrari (except the Pope's) has gotten the Show or Display permit because they didn't need to. Someone needs to pay the money and go through the effort of having it done and I think almost all modern Ferraris didn't need it. Those that do are over 25 years old so they're except anyway.
The Sterling Moss has it and that's likely the route to go. The Monza meets all the requirements as far as I can tell (under 500 and will satisfy EPA) and is similar to the Mercedes. I think a strong argument can be made that precedent has been set with the Sterling Moss for the Monza to be included too. I completely agree it's not a certainty but I'm optimistic that it can be done. I suppose we'll find out!
BTW, I don't personally buy cars as an investment because I'm too bad at guessing and I like driving them too much. However, if someone (maybe me) goes through the effort of getting the exemption then the prices may do quite well.
This is absolutely true and is probably the best reason going to take the Monza.
It will be a big plus if the Monza gets the show and display, no doubt.
If the Monza meets EPA standards it will be approved NHTA but we will have to wait until production ends and Ferrari certifies less than 500 cars were built.
And then it will be legal to drive and we can finally enjoy the Monza as the decapitation death machine that Ferrari intended!
All kudos to you for buying these cars to actually drive them.
The irony with the Monza is that while the values will be helped by getting a show & display exemption to allow them to be driven on the road, many will be kept as investment pieces with next to no miles on them, also hoping that would increase values.
Reading all the discussion on safety with interest.
As an aside I find it a bit odd that the Berluti helmet designed for the Monza is open face.
An example of form not following function ?
Anyone who thinks those "designer" helmets will be good at the kind of speeds these cars are capable of, needs to have their head examined, ideally before they reach the operating table.
Fwiw, even with the efforts of AM ceo and his team we couldn’t get the GT8 for show and display here in USA.
On what grounds was it denied?
PS I also wonder if this is a mechanical approval for show and display or if there are other factors at work. I wonder if anyone over there would think that letting high end manufacturers make cars that in no way meet the current safety standards, but relying on show and display to make the cars legally drivable, is the right use for the show and display certification.
what you said that doesn't make enough sense. No one is thinking wearing those helmets while driving hard on road or track. May be while participating in a rally like cavalcade or mille miglia or relaxed driving occassions, in order to look stylish. I bet many will shelve those helments and berluti shoes and will wear only sunglasses and hats.
Yeah I don't get it either. It reminds me of the expression, "common sense isn't so common."
Here's the bottom line:
- The Monza shouldn't be driven in a competitive racing environment (or any other road car ever built). It probably isn't smart.
- You shouldn't wear a designer helmet when driving aggressively. It probably isn't smart either.
I've never understood why there's always some that need to be negative about things others like just for the sake of negativity. I'm not talking about healthy discussions over things like why one design or technology choice may be better than others. I like those and learn a lot from them. I'm talking about the extreme comments that add no value. Things like people driving these "need to have their head examined, ideally before they reach the operating table", the car is a "formula for disaster", and Ferrari "blatantly flaunts modern safety standards" and is "frankly just lazy" (and that's just what I found in the last two pages).
I'm not picking on any one post, just a general theme I've seen far too much of on this forum. I think it's built up in me so I apologize in advance for the rant but check out the SF90 discussion and you'll find page after page of why Ferrari is behind the times because they didn't go with a carbon tub like McLaren, and Ferrari is gouging customers and doesn't care about anything but profit. Really? Ferrari is lazy and gouging customers and purposely making inferior cars? I've talked to a few people at Ferrari and they are so passionate and proud of what they do. I even had one poster comment to me that Ferrari doesn't do market research on what customers want because they don't care. Really? A multi billion dollar company doesn't do market research? When does that thought make sense? I've gotten multiple surveys after each purchase and have even gotten phone calls from Italy asking me how I like my cars, what other exotic cars I drive, what I like about them and what I don't. It's far more customer engagement than I've seen from any other brand.
Same was true of the Pista thread when the car launched. In fact, here’s the common theme whenever Ferrari launches a car: "No carbon tub? It sucks. Twice the price of McLaren? Ferrari is gouging." It was so bad I started to think McLaren employees were posting from their marketing team. If people think Ferrari sucks so much and are so irresponsible then I wonder why they're here. I don't personally like McLaren for my own reasons but I don't feel the need to go on the McLaren forum and explain why Ferrari or Lamborghini (or whoever) is so much better. I feel zero need to expound on why they are behind the times or how the Senna is a death machine because it only has a three point seat belt and they are "lazy and flaunting safety" because "who could survive a Formula 1 style crash in a three point seat belt?" I apply a little common sense, realize the car wasn’t made for that, and I just like that McLaren exists and that we have choices. It's the same way I like that Ferrari created the Monza and it's unique and special. Definitely not for everyone but that's OK too. By the way, I actually think the Senna is pretty awesome but I hope my point stands.
Imagine you're sitting at a restaurant enjoying your chocolate ice cream and someone has to constantly point out why chocolate ice cream sucks and strawberry is so much better. They don’t add any other value, they just tell you over and over that the restaurant is lazy and taking advantage of you because they didn't put fruit in the ice cream and strawberry was the way to go. I'd think that person was a jerk and find a different table so I could enjoy my ice cream.
Sorry, I know it's a bit of rant but when I first signed up to this site I was on it every day and excited to learn about Ferraris, different technologies and what was going on in the market. Now I just check the site every once in a while because I'm tired (and bored) of the "this sucks my opinion is so much better” without adding any value to contribute to a discussion. If Ferrari is lazy and terrible or the Monza (or Pista or SF90 or on and on) is so bad then maybe it's not the car for them. It's OK, nothing wrong with that but why do people need to make sure everyone else knows it?
The Monza isn't a death machine. No one with any sense is wearing their designer helmets thinking they're super safe and no one is tracking their Monzas in any extreme racing conditions. Ferrari didn't create the Monza just to gouge customers and be lazy. Maybe I need to have my head examined now and then but this forum doesn’t need to be the one to tell me. Now can we just enjoy our ice cream in peace?
I need a hug.
I like stracciatella gelato, it’s the best!
I agree there is too much negativity. Ferrari has a great variety of products and programs to support them to; something that the competition has taken to emulating. If you don't like what Ferrari is selling then GO and support YOUR favorite car company instead!
I hate chocolate ice cream.
Otherwise I agree with your post and I'm giving you a hug......
I don't think your post is a rant at all as it raises a few interesting questions. As one from the "negative" camp as you refer to re my posts, some general thoughts in reply:
I get that there are many owners here who don't want to see any negativity towards their chosen car. Which is understandable but imagine if the entire forum turned into a series of "great colour combo, whoa love those headlights, unbelievable steering wheel" type comments. Sure it would massage the egos of those who own it, but there will be no meaningful debate (subjective or objective) and to me that diminishes the value of a public forum (open to owners and non-owners). Where I personally draw the line is when someone posts about their own specific car (just delivered, photos etc). If I don't like their choice of colour, options etc, I just move on. There's no need to rain on their parade. On the other hand, if someone who has bought a Pista etc, and says Pista is the best car ever, and you get some opposite reaction, that is fine with me. A related issue is that some owners here think that the value of their car is affected by comments here and get upset. If that bothers people on an internet forum, then it is better to turn away or look for a owners-only type forum. Many of the big collectors I know haven't even heard of Ferrarichat.
I am interested in reading comments both positive and negative about the cars I own and others. Plenty of critical comments about the Pista are interesting to me even if mine is just on the way. And I don't get upset about people posting here that 812s are falling in value like a rock even if mine arrived only one month ago. Some of these posts are opinions, others are personal insights yet others are troll posts from someone with a lot of time. Even if some are just a malicious rumour, you can't take on the entire internet and win.
Finally, I see some posts above which say that if you are negative about Ferrari, go to another brand. Well, in my case, I have been an owner since 37 years ago, and I'm not going anywhere else now. I've seen Ferraris that were a lot worse back then, but I stayed with the brand. Today the cars and company are going in a new direction. Some aspects are good (e.g. I don't have to be rescued on the highway as much) and others no so much.
In short, if you want a debate, Ferrarichat is a great place but one can't expect it be unquestioningly positive every time.
Hahaha, you're WRONG on your ice cream choice but I appreciate the hug.