Is the Targa Top Dead?

The problem I see with the Targa is that you have to physically take it off and store it somewhere in the car. Most people are lazy and don't want the hassle. Many would prefer to simply unlatch two places at the top of the windshield and push a button.

 

+1.

Add to that the loss of structural rigidity, and the advent of gian sunroofs (Merc's panorama roof, Porsche's current "targa" setup, etc) and I think the conventional targa top is a thing of the past.

 

Nothing is "dead" just because it's currently out of style.

The "convertible top" is an example of something that was "dead" and yet a few years later came back to life.

The Targa style roof has few moving parts, is relatively secure and dry and doesn't wear out in a few years. I would expect to see it again.

Possibly, when they announce once again that the convertible top is "dead".

 

I thought convertibles were legislated out of existence (or nearly so) in the 70's? As opposed to falling out of favor with consumers.

 

That really was the heyday of the targa and t-top.

 

As lazy as it sounds taking the targa top off my old Supra was a pain. It took four bolts using a supplied tool shaped like an Allan Key. Sit there four a couple minutes undo the bolts and then manhandle the top off. It did stow neatly in the hatch area, however.

And yes, with the targa off, the car did have more flex and really shuddered when going over railroad tracks and bumpy roads. It felt like a wet noodle at times.

The Targa does offer the stability of a hardtop with the benefits of an open top car though, which is great. I really, really like the 575m Superamerica's folding top and I think that would be fantastic in a less expensive sports car.

 

My recently deceased del sol also had a targa top that was very well designed. Simply undo two latches and lift the aluminum top off, very easy for one person. It stored above the trunk, and the trunk was still almost as usable with it in place. The rear window went down and it was basically a convertible with a roll bar.

to me it did offer the best of both worlds. Wish other two-seaters had it. Not crazy about the (in)security of cloth tops nor the complexity of retractable hard tops.

 

I'm a fan of the targa styling. With the resulting airflow over the car, it's a good setup between coupe and convertible. Plus, the simplicity compared to full convertibles is a welcome feature.

I don't think it's dead...Porsche Carrera GT, Lotus Elise and the potentially upcoming Porsche 918 Spyder.

 

I agree. There are still plenty of 246s, 308/328s, 911s, etc. with targa roofs that are still fully functional. We'll need to wait 20-30 years, but I'm guessing the folding metal roofs on the BMW 3, Ferrari California, Merc SL, etc., will be a maintenance headache.

Was gonna say...

It's a brilliant design, and with modern materials there's no reason the top can't be pretty light. The targa roof on my 328 was one my favorite features.

Plus I think the Bugatti Veyron has a limited edition open version that uses something like a targa, so I wouldn't call it dead, just a niche.

 

Seems like the next stage is the folding targa hardtop ala the 458 spyder.

 

I LOVE MY TARGA!

So with that out of the way, the arguments about structural rigidity are usually moot. How many of those that rely on this argument actually exceed the traction and road holding ability of the tires/suspension or need the reduction in lap times or quarter mile results?

While they do add weight, they are more secure than a canvas top.

They don't add/require complex mechanisms to make them function.

They are more durable for incliment weather.

They are more difficult to store.

I'm one of those that prefers a targa. It "pushes the right buttons" in functionality and style that's tough to find.

 

For some reason I think targa's actually look better than a convertible variation such as with the 355's. Convertibles to me are too much a "cruise the beachside boulevard" car which should be left to something like a '59 Impala or '54 Buick Roadmaster. I don't know, maybe I'm just nuts like that though

 

Porsche don't think so... Neither do Lotus, Bugatti or Koenigsegg.

But as far as mainstream automotive design is concerned, I think it's a matter of function more than form. The rigidity of an old Targa-topped car is questionable. These days, engineers have lent the aesthetic of a Targa-top to a few modern special editions (SMART seems to like it though) without the dramatic loss of rigidity.

The design in terms of something contemporary is quite a throwback. Porsche used it well, but I'm not sure how it would do against the folding hard-tops...

Interesting thread though!

_J

 

I think the last real targa Porsche did was the Carrera GT. I haven't driven one, but I would assume if there was too much flex Porsche would have done a hardtop coupe.

Early racers were always open, and F1 cars have always been open, so I suspect that the idea of a roof as factor in rigidity is a bit overblown. (Although NASCAR always runs hardtops, probably because of aerodynamics and top speed.)

 

The current Jeep Wrangler hardtop can be broken down to be a targa top. With the return of the full convertible, I don't see the attraction of them anymore in most applications.

 

I don't like convertibles. Won't buy a new one, won't buy a used one. Give me a good targa top or wide open sunroof any day.

Convertibles are inherently not as safe as targas; roll bars behind the seats don't offer as much protection as a full body shell behind the seats. Many convertibles don't even have roll bars.

Convertible tops leak and distort much sooner than targa tops.

Most convertibles look ugly with the top up.

Most convertibles have poor visibility with the top up.

Any derelict with a knife can quickly and quietly vandalize your convertible, and refitted tops are almost never quite the same (especially with today's complex power tops). Vandalism/entry/theft are a greater concern in some developing countries.

Plastic rear windows suck. They are a pain to keep clear.

Convertibles are generally heavier than their coupe counterparts. If you want lightness, better aerodynamics, and still the "open air" experience, you go with the targa top.

Convertibles have their place, but not in my garage.

Have fun, convertible lovers.

 

The Pontiac Solstice came out as a convertible and ended as a Targa Coupe.
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Unlike race cars (old and new) modern road cars are of unibody construction, with the roof supplying a substantial portion of the structural rigidity. A modern coupe designed with roof would be extremely flexible if it's roof were removed and no extra structure was added, which is why so much weight is usually added to a car that is convertiblized in the aftermarket.

Old race cars had tube frames, the body was not a structural member (generally). Modern race cars and Carrera GT's are built out of unobtanium and designed from the outset as open cars.

 

It wasn't always that way, they used to race convertibles. They disappeared from the track shortly after the '59 Daytona 500... drivers in silk shirts lasted a bit longer...
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The Lotus Elise/Exige is a bonded aluminum chassis, not a tube frame, but probably was designed at the outset to be a targa. Obviously more expensive than a stamped steel unibody car, however.

Maybe the targa top "revival" will depend on manufacturer's moving away from the steel box design and returning to tube frames (a la Ferrari Boxer/308 and earlier) or using more innovative chassis technologies (e.g. Lotus).

 

Now THAT was racin'!!

 

I love that car

 

Sorry, I wasn't meaning that unibodies couldn't be perfectly fine convertibles, just that they need to be designed that way from the beginning or have their structures modified to be stiff enough when their roofs are removed. Other construction types, as you mentioned, would have different levels of structure associated with their roofs. The Exige's roof panel is bolted in place and offers extra rigidity when installed.

 

Agreed. 'Hacksaw' convertibles are a different animal.