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Is this F12 a lemon? It's for sale. Please help

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by DaveMc, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2012
    356
    Palm Coast, Florida
    Hi. I am considering buying this 2014 F12, but the service records scare me. What do you think? It is being sold by a Ferrari dealer in Seattle Washington.

    Mileage Repairs
    800 Car has vibrations. Dealer removed and replaced the drive line and bell housing and reinstalled exhaust system.

    1275 Phone disconnects before each trip and the clock is broken

    4000 Car stalls when driving. Dealer found many fault codes for camshaft and crankshaft. Oil level was 6 litres low.

    4000 Brake fluid contamination. "Short trip test" and "EVAP test" in "left hand motronic" fail

    4000 Rear under tray is damaged

    4020 Remove and install rear bumper

    5220 Factory ordered a compression and leak-down testing as well as Pre-cat gas readings of spark plugs and combustion chambers. Result was that the factory ordered removal and replacement of the engine assembly.

    6875 Fluid leaks under car. A/C line was leaking

    6960 A/C blows hot air. A/C line was leaking. A/C system was overcharged.

    7520 Car is now for sale. Brake pads have 10m left and Tires have 6m tread left.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm obviously worried about the engine replacement. There seems to be a lot of repairs for a car with only 7,500 miles. Is it a lemon?
    Thanks!
     
  2. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Apr 6, 2004
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    Sadly that F12 sounds like a train wreck. Just like the trains there is always another F12 coming along; go there instead!
     
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  3. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2014
    271
    France
    Full Name:
    Max
    ^ This.

    Many F12 are on the market now. Even if this one is a lower price than the others (and I hope it is...) I would pass. Not sure why it has so many faults but I would for sure hate having to deal with it. Ferraris are about the joy of driving them, the joy might be overwhelmed by anger and frustration with this particular F12!
     
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  4. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
    354
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Is the title branded as a Lemon? Doesn't sound like it.
    I'd say it depends on the discount given because of its history. If it was done at a reputable shop an engine swap wouldn't be a big deal. The AC line leaking sounds like it was related to some event that damaged the under tray, so presumably that won't be an issue in the future.

    The contaminated brake fluid is worrisome though, doesn't give any indication what would have caused that.
     
  5. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    The whole engine was replaced - looks like it was improperly prepped either by factory or by dealer. Other issues with exhaust system, brakes, AC and electronics... damaged rear panels indicate hard life.

    Run away.
     
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  6. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2012
    356
    Palm Coast, Florida
    Asking $280,000. Original MSRP was $445,000. Here is the window sticker. Lots of blue carbon fiber throughout, including that cup holder! Blue Medio interior, Rosso Maranello paint.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. slm

    slm F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 5, 2004
    2,600
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    Steve M
    Run far away and quickly. Asking for big trouble.

    There are enough good F12s out there.
     
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  8. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
    354
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    I wouldn't touch it for that price. But that is a pretty unique spec, if its the interior you want, you might be able to negotiate a big chunk off to account for its history.
     
  9. Dolceexte

    Dolceexte Formula 3

    Dec 20, 2015
    1,008
    No way! Unless they are covering for another X years and you will drive it and give it back before then
     
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  10. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior
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    Nov 29, 2012
    356
    Palm Coast, Florida
    My theory is that the engine stalled while driving (this was reported to dealer) and then the driver lost control of the car and spun off the road, and hit something to damage the under tray and the rear bumper. The factory replacing the entire "engine assembly" is very curious, however.

    I really like the looks of the car, but I guess it is a "can of worms". Or perhaps all the bugs have now been worked out? Maybe I should make a low-ball offer with a 2 year CPO factory warranty included?
     
  11. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    386
    Southern California
    Walk away unless you can get cpo warranty


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
    4,261
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    Ndugu Umbo
    Is this a serious thread? That poor car was trashed. You don't indicate how many owners or if it was on lease or company owned. Don't like the miles either. Too bad it is interesting spec. Obviously you don't buy an F12 with a replaced engine. Nearly everything important on the car has been repaired or replaced. Doesn't seem possible and I doubt they would CPO it. They sure wouldn't if you were trading it back in.
     
  13. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,760
    France
    I am pretty sure in Europe such a car would not be for sale at a Ferrari dealer, if they get one like this (e.g. as part exchange) they offload it to a specialist shop (selling used sports/luxury car, not an official dealer of any brand).
    It should end up at a huge discount to be even considered.
     
  14. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2012
    356
    Palm Coast, Florida
    2 owners. The dealer will CPO the car. One year warranty for $6K. Here is the carfax.

    https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=ZFF74UFAXE0198248&partner=CDM_O

    Why does it matter if the car was on a lease or "company owned"? Thanks for your help.
     
  15. bobbyd

    bobbyd Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    712
    Keep looking. Price way too high given this is a car with a "story". If whatever reason you ever want to sell or trade the car you will get your a-- handed to you.

    Plus, a troublesome Ferrari can cost you a fortune if the above records are anything to go by.....

    Good luck!
     
  16. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,349
    Like the good ol' saying: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Trust your gut instinct.
     
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  17. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
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    Ndugu Umbo
    Warrantee extensions can go for two years at 6-7k/year so they are only offering one year and they want you to pay. I was expecting they give you 2 years free CPO to calm your fears that it will not have more trouble given its present record. As far as leases and such, clear owner-only titles promote more sense of commitment and care in ownership IMHO. Many feel otherwise so its personal preference.
     
  18. woody byrd

    woody byrd Formula Junior
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    Feb 15, 2006
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    woody byrd
    I had one for two years trouble free. I vote Keep looking.
     
  19. ewright

    ewright Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    429
    London/Chicago
    Full Name:
    EJW
    Dave,

    Can I ask where you found this information? I didn't see it in the link to the carfax report. Taken together, it is certainly concerning and would motivate me to keep looking,
     
  20. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior
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    Nov 29, 2012
    356
    Palm Coast, Florida
    Dealer sent it to me. You should always ask for all the service records when buying these high-end cars
     
  21. ewright

    ewright Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    429
    London/Chicago
    Full Name:
    EJW
    Excellent advice. That’s very forthcoming of the dealer given the extensive problems with the vehicle.
     
  22. F12lover

    F12lover Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    50
    I had a deal to buy this very car and only after signing contract and paying full purchase price was it revealed to me that engine had been replaced. Lots of stories and dealer even claimed it did not affect value. I walked and dealer refunded full payment with no issues. Having said all that, I drove the car as well and now I own a 2016 F12 that I have put over 5,500 mike on in under 3 months. There is something wrong with the car in Seattle. It made weird noises that I was told were normal. At the time I had no reference to compare and now I do. My 2016 did not make any such noises. I would not take the chance on this car no matter the price.


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  23. F12lover

    F12lover Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    50
    350MH83 likes this.
  24. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2012
    356
    Palm Coast, Florida
    Thank you for posting your experience. You just saved me the cost of a airplane ticket from Florida. It's such a shame, because I really liked the spec.
     
  25. F12lover

    F12lover Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    50
    It was a beautiful car and so unique in terms of options. It cost me a lot of time, disappointment and aggravation. The car has been sitting there for a long time and I suspect it will continue to sit given how many other F12s are our there with no stories etc.


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