Is this injector leaking?

Do you have running problems? They do have a seal there. Be prepared to replace the block underneath if you try to remove it. If it not causing drivability problem, I would leave it be.

 

If fuel can get out = air can get in = can mess up the Lambda system. But as Mitchell said, not only is the donut seal bad/rock hard, but the stock bushing that it mounts into (and its o-ring) is probably not in great shape anymore either -- try a search on "113309" for many prior threads (there's a much better PTFE bushing/kit available from 400i guy Geert Jan).

 

Is that a rusted steel injector or a brass injector?


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Could possibly be leaking down from the fuel line fitting/injector connection. Mine did that after I'd replaced them. For me it was just a unscrew and re-do while being sure to keep the threads lined up. Not very hard to (at least in my case) pull the injector and replace it and the rubber O-ring/seat thingy with the VW style green screw in ones. That thing ain't getting any better by itself.

 

No trouble -- it's kind of an interesting history to follow where: 1) the original screw-in style was way over-designed, costly, and troublesome, 2) the 2nd attempt (your style) is a bit under-designed, prone to leaking, and the bushing material is not really up to the task of constant fuel exposure (but the non-thermally conductive bushing material is a plus), 3) the third attempt went to an Aluminum bushing and added an extra o-ring which was much better at preventing leaking (but the Aluminum being thermally conductive is bit of a negative).

 

I am in the, 'Do one, do um all,' camp. And I will 'Plug' Geert Jan's product mentioned above. He and I worked on another project (rebuilding FDs) years ago. No financial interest then or now.

Keep the steel as they are NLA and have them Pro Cleaned.

They are supposedly near indestructible as near everybody will pay good money for them.

If you buy brass replacements, smart guys say to buy about 10 ... as 2 of 8 probably will not flow right and you can't fix them.

 

I will third Geert Jan's inserts as well. Very nice! He has the doughnut washers as well.

It is a little hard to see, but is your "C" clamp still in there?

When I removed mine, two of them completely crumbled... You will need some sort of simple puller to get them out with those hard old seals. It just needs to attach to the top of the injector. The new inserts/carriers are white, not black, just FYI... I'm super happy with my set and they got here in under a week.

Your car is a late QV or 328?

Franny

 

I think you could buy a complete set of new donuts, bushings, and o-rings without any regret at all as eventually refreshing all of those after ~30 years would be no sin (and really long overdue). Replacing the obvious leaking one(s) is a must, but the rest could be done when other servicing tasks makes it convenient. When you fix that leaking one it will give you a chance to assess things (how cracked, how brittle, etc.) so that might give you an idea about the urgency for replacing the others.

With regard to the injectors, some of the Professionals here have indicated that they consider replacing them as an expected part of a 30K mile major service. The actual "business" parts of either the "steel" or "brass" injectors are steel (so they should be the same performance-wise). I don't have any direct evidence, but my guess would be that when CIS was new, and the flagship Bosch injection system, the quality (of the steel ones) was very closely watched and controlled. Now (when CIS is obsolete), the brass ones are probably made in the third world at lowest possible cost so maybe a chance for less quality (but I haven't had any specific problem with them). You might as well have asked "how often should I change the timing belts?"

 

Chiming in as another happy Geert Jan customer. I installed his bushings the last time I did a major on my 328.

The injectors can indeed be a bugger getting out of the manifold depending on how old/supple the injector O-rings are. qedqeq, let me know if you need a puller, I made one that works quite well and doesn't scratch anything. I'd be happy to send one out that you could borrow and send back. Alternatively, if you'd like to have one in your tool box I have a few left for sale in the classified section (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-parts-collectibles/509578-3x8-mondial-fuel-injector-puller.html)

Like Mark, I prefer the original steel style injectors and switched back from the brass versions a while ago. The original steel injectors came out great after ultrasonically cleaning and bench testing on my KDJE P-400.
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Nice pics, thanks!

I have one of your injector pullers, but......

What is the trick to getting the old bushings and "O" rings out with the manifold still on the engine?
Alden

 

Alden, I'm not sure those injector bushings can be removed with the manifolds still on the engine. When I swapped those injector bushings out on my 328 I removed the intake manifolds from the block and pressed the bushings out from the back side (after removing the c clip of course).

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I was able to do all eight in the car... It was a LOT easier after the boot lid was removed Not a bad time to do spark plugs if need be.

There is some fuss over the material for the seals... Green vs. black. I'm sure the modern seals are still going to be an improvement over the original material any way you go. The ones I installed are green.

Franny

 

Franny, are you talking about the injectors or injector bushings? Injectors are a piece of cake with the manifolds in the car but I couldn't see how to get the bushings out intact without pressing them out from the backside which requires manifold removal.

 

Oh, I think mine were in such a bad state that most of the carriers came out with the injectors. For the ones that stayed in the manifold I think I used a long bolt with a nut (and lock nut) at the end that would just pass through the carrier after the injector was removed. It was able to catch the nut on the bottom of the carrier and pull it out. Mine were crumbling a bit so they didn't really give up too much of a fight - I think the injector and the manifold wall were all that was keeping them together. Several had significant cracks which were letting in air I'm sure resulting in a rough idle and a lean condition. My car had several problems and this was just one so it was hard to gauge the overall effect, but They are really nice now with the new seals and carriers

Franny

 

I have heard of some guys fashioning a tool in the form of the sign for OMEGA "Ω" and while squeezing, pushing it down the bushing center hole, then letting it expand and gently pulling out the bushings that remain in the manifold.

I do not know if any of the PROs here would give that idea a "Thumbs-UP" or "Thumbs-Down," though

 

Understood. I considered removing the bushings from the topside, however, mine wouldn't budge and I was worried that they would end up coming out piece meal with more aggressive measures. I also didn't want to risk any bits of bushing making their way deeper in the intake should they start falling apart during extraction. It also gave me an excuse to pull the plenum and refinish it.

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I bought one of Verrel's pullers. Worked like a charm.

 

Verrel is awesome!

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