Is This The End Of Cars Like Ferrari? | FerrariChat

Is This The End Of Cars Like Ferrari?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by RP, Feb 13, 2008.

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  1. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    Interesting article, although questionable.



    The goverment is ready to take the gasoline out of car enthusiasts' veins.

    There's only one thing to say about a Corvette that can top 200 mph, or a Cadillac sedan that makes the muscle cars of the '60s seem like a bunch of wimps: Enjoy it while it lasts. This golden age of horsepower may be coming to an end, at least in the gas-guzzling manner to which we've become accustomed.

    An initial stroll through the recent auto show in Detroit might convince you that nothing has changed. GM was touting the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, a 620-horsepower 200-mph monster that's simply the fastest production car in GM's history. Next door at the Cadillac display, the CTS-V sport sedan was flexing its 550-horsepower muscles.

    Even squeaky-clean Toyota — ignoring recent environmental backlash over guzzlers such as its Tundra pickup — offered the 500-plus horsepower Lexus LF-A roadster. This Tokyo demon, heading to showrooms next year, should also break the 200-mph barrier.

    These hard-drinking machines might convince you that automakers are still partying like it's 1999, when gas cost around $1.20 a gallon. But just under the Detroit show's surface, something else was brewing. And it wasn't high-octane unleaded.

    Read: Gasoline's New Math: Miles Per Dollar

    New rules will force the car kings to shift their focus. Revised CAFE standards require automakers to raise the average mileage of their car and truck fleets to 35 mpg by 2020. Proposed pollution standards in the U.S. and Europe may force even more dramatic increases. And if California wins the right in court to regulate global-warming emissions, you might just kiss your super-powered car goodbye — at least those that rely solely on gasoline.

    In Europe the government and greens are proposing carbon-dioxide targets so strict that, if passed, not a single gas-burning model on sale today — including hybrids like the Toyota Prius — would pass muster.

    The situation recalls the end of the first muscle-car era, which left Boomers shedding tears for their beloved GTOs, Shelby Mustangs and Hemi 'Cudas. In the early '70s, the first-ever tailpipe standards were a critical step toward cleaning up smoggy cities, but they also helped strangle the muscle car. It took two decades and a serious dose of engineering Viagra before cars recovered their potency.

    The unfortunate side effect is that the average car today slurps more gasoline than it did 20 years ago. Cars became vastly quicker and more powerful. And of course, Americans switched en masse to SUVs.

    Read: Fuel Economy: Then and Now

    For anyone — including myself — with a need for speed, the longtime cliché is that they have gasoline in their veins. But a century's worth of shooting-up has put us where we are now, trying to kick a national addiction to oil.

    As a result, the Motown show also featured enough green cars to stock a Sierra Club parking lot. On display was Toyota's hybrid A-BAT concept pickup and General Motors' latest hybrids, including a plug-in Saturn Vue SUV that's coming in 2010. Mercedes, VW and Honda hyped their high-mileage diesel cars that can even meet California's tough pollution rules.

    Tellingly, the show also saw carmakers backing away from the thrilling-but-thirsty V8 engine that's as much a part of American culture as rock and roll. GM deep-sixed a $300 million project to develop a new V8, with Vice Chairman Bob Lutz saying that new fuel-economy rules directly sparked the move. Ford plans to drop V8s from several models, replacing them with turbocharged V6 and four-cylinder engines that go farther on a gallon.

    If all that doesn't have you seeing the writing on the wall, you'd better schedule an eye exam. Still, if there's a difference between today's golden age of performance and the '60s original, it's the ability of technology to ride to the rescue.

    Discuss: Do you think the new regulations will really mean the end of high-powered cars or will technology come to the rescue once again?

    At the Detroit show, I asked Lutz — the GM car czar who famously inspired the Dodge Viper while at Chrysler — whether this was the last hurrah for horsepower. And while Lutz has become a vocal supporter of hybrids, electric cars and alternative fuels, he said that cars like the Corvette would still find their niche. "At the height of the vegetarian craze, the grocery stores are still selling New York steaks," Lutz said.

    Lutz's point was that some people will always find a way to go fast. But the future does look bleak for speed machines powered by gasoline. While it's too early to predict which fuels will be winners and losers, it's certain that there will be multiple players. Half the new cars sold in Europe run on clean diesel, and that impressive technology is finally on its way here.

    Mercedes showed off a sumptuous diesel-hybrid S-Class sedan that delivers 44 mpg. Audi will almost certainly bring us a diesel version of its spectacular R8 sports car, combining 500 horsepower with a respectable 24 mpg.

    Energy experts agree that the transition to alternative fuels will take decades. There will still be gas pumps 30 and 40 years from now. Car lovers will still be able to cruise their classic internal combustion machines, whether it's a '32 Ford Deuce Coupe, a '57 Chevy or today's hottest rides.

    But the days of guzzling gas as quickly as you can hose it into your tank are over. Looking back 30 years from now, we'll know it was not only the right move, but the only move.
     
  2. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

    May 4, 2006
    5,836
    Texas
    A world without Ferrari is horrible to think about. I don't think it will come to that though, Ferrari is vital to the automobile industry.
     
  3. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    890
    Alma, Michigan USA
    THESE ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!!

    ENJOY OURSELVES, BECAUSE IT'S LATER THAN WE THINK!

    I hope this won't be the future...But necessity, is the Mother of invention. Will we be able to afford to buy them and fuel them. Will they be built???

    This appears to be the GOLDEN AGE, What the future holds for us, I don't know?

    Ciao...Paolo
     
  4. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
    8,046
    SFL
    I wouldn't worry about it. There is ways around everything.
     
  5. kvisser

    kvisser Formula 3

    Dec 11, 2004
    1,956
    Damascus, MD
    Full Name:
    Ken Visser
    #5 kvisser, Feb 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I believe we are witnessing the apex of the fossil fuel powered automobile. They will be globally regulated down to enemic, black boxed governed automobiles.

    Revisit the lyrics of Rush's song "Barchetta".

    My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about
    He says it used to be a farm, before the motor law
    And on sundays I elude the eyes and hop the turbine freight
    To far outside the wire, where my white-haired uncle waits.

    Jump to the ground
    As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
    Run like the wind,
    As excitement shivers up and down my spine
    Down in his barn
    My uncle preserved for me, an old machine ---
    For fifty-odd years
    To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

    I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
    A brilliant red barchetta, from a better, vanished time
    I fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar
    Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime...

    Wind in my hair ---
    Shifting and drifting ---
    Mechanical music ---
    Adrenalin surge ---

    Well-weathered leather
    Hot metal and oil
    The scented country air
    Sunlight on chrome
    The blur of the landscape
    Every nerve aware

    Suddenly, ahead of me, across the mountainside
    A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
    I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
    Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

    Drive like the wind
    Straining the limits of machine and man
    Laughing out loud
    With fear and hope, Ive got a desperate plan

    At the one-lane bridge
    I leave the giants stranded
    At the riverside
    Race back to the farm
    To dream with my uncle
    At the fireside...

    That is going to be us, might not be next year, or 10 years, but soon enough regulations will stifle the unbridled horsepower races in the industry.

    And all the more "Dietrich" inspired high speed accidents will bring the ugly roar of protestation from the masses to heel these monsters parading on our streets.

    We'll probably have to go the outlaw areas of Russia and other ever expanding "developing" nations to have some fun. But then again, look at what happened with the Gumball Rally last year in Portugal.

    This is of course a worse case scenario but you never know.

    cheers

    ken
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. pdmracing

    pdmracing Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2007
    755
    atlanta
    Isnt this the same BS they fed us when unlead & cat converters first came in the 70's ?, then the airbag scare, remember how that was the end of the automotive world and would not save lives but add thousands to the costs? As we now know technology has advanced to the point that we are indeed in the golden age.

    Now that they have closed the loopholes on the SUV's in cafe watch how fast the MPG comes up. Chevys new trucks now get 20 mpg, when last years were lucky to get 12.amazing how fast they saw the light.

    As long as the public demands it, we will still have our cake & be able to drive it to.
     
  7. Mr. V

    Mr. V Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    1,247
    Portland, Oregon
    For most owners of high end cars, the cost of fuel is close to irrelevant.

    Heck, what good is being rich if you can't lord it over the common masses?

    There will always be Ferraris, and people lining up to buy them.

    Plus, keep in mind the minimal amount of use most of them get: if gas is ten bucks a gallon, a garage queen is still cheap (not) to drive.
     
  8. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    20,958
    MD and NE
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    One 8-71 blower would suffice!!!:D:D:D
     
  9. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio
    This is all simply an elaborate movement to justify making more money off oil products, particularly gasoline.

    Petrol powered cars and oil will continue to exist, as well as supercars run on it, but the costs of running them may simply go up. They may impose some kind of taxation of traditional gasoline-powered cars because there are too many of them in existence, from the most basic forms of cheap transportation up to exotics. Most people are not going to suddenly run out and buy electric or biofueled cars. They can't and won't.

    I feel this issue is like anything else, eg, global warming, supervolcanoes, asteroids hitting the earth, tabloid doomsday, the hysteria is highly overblown. Gasoline isn't going anywhere. Nor is oil.
     
  10. sindo308qv

    sindo308qv F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,575
    miami.fl.
    Full Name:
    sindo
    +1 My sentiments exactly. We came back after the early '70's
    oil crunch, we'll do it again. All this global warming, electric cars etc..
    just another way for politicians to stir up certain voters, and companies
    to make money. Years ago the world was freezing, now it's heating up.
    What's next ? Just right? Finally leading scientists are coming out debunking
    Al Gores fairy tale. Do we have to take care of the environment? Absolutely.
    But not with doom and gloom legislation.Let us drill offshore to rely less on the
    mideast and venezuela,build nuclear reactors(clean energy), even France understands this.
     
  11. Doug_S

    Doug_S Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2007
    450
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Doug
    Its all about patronage. Government will require permission to do anything (produce carbon). So civil society will become like Mexico. Everything requires a bribe, the more profitable the business the larger the bribe. No capital markets no capitalism.

    Pull and cronyism rules all. Hope you enjoy it. It is coming your way.
     
  12. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    The above article has been flashing on MSN all day. It's stuff like this that is used as a trial balloon to prepare us for more government influence/restrictions. Get ready for more carbon taxes etc. More for the government and less for us.

    News like this: Washington may charge $40-240 yearly 'greenhouse gas' global warming tax

    Vehicle licensing fees in Washington State could spike dramatically, all in the name of global warming. Six Seattle Democrats in the state Senate are trying to push through a bill that would require the Department of Licensing to collect a greenhouse gas tax.

    http://www.kxly.com/Global/story.asp?s=7844233
     
  13. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio

    Right.

    Even though human-influenced CO2 is laughably miniscule, they're foisting upon the public this impending disaster scenario to justify jacking you up the a$$ with taxation. Like the pied piper leading mice around. It's all propagandist bullsh!t to pilfer more and more from the general tax-paying populace.

    here is a great documentary explaining very well how politicized and unscientific the whole Al Gore-ism of society is. It's enough to make you laugh, cry, and throw up all at the same time.

    Enjoy:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&q=4499562022478442170



    articles:
    the greatest scam in history
    http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/father-of-climatology-calls-manmade-global-warming-absurd/
    http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=927b9303-802a-23ad-494b-dccb00b51a12
     
  14. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,431
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Fortunately I live in the past. Owning a 308 and being happy with it is a nice shield to the future. It keeps me living in 1984 forever...
     
  15. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    It is precisely the same BS. The automotive world was supposed to end in the mid-'70s. How much does anyone here really miss leaded gasoline? Are today's cars much slower due to cats?

    My hunch is that ultimately hydrogen/fuel-cell sports cars will exceed the performance of the internal combustion-engined cars and we'll just buy those because they're better.

    The only thing that does concern me is all the pedestrian/safety regs that limit what designers can do with sports cars. I.e., no more 308s or Boxers because the bonnet is too low, windscreen too raked, etc. And airbags did pretty much ruin the aesthetics of the steering wheel.

    Yep, I don't think cars got much more fun to drive after the '80s. I plan to always have an older car around.
     
  16. Jaws

    Jaws Karting

    Nov 30, 2006
    191
    New England - USA
    You can recycle energy to help meet the new MPG regulations and turbo is the way to go. Audi has a new R8 model with the Turbo Deisel 12 cyl from their Lemans car. Gobs of torque (700 something ft/lb). Small turbos spool fast so very little lag. I doubt that this car gets the stipulated MPG but this is the future - turbo diesel. You will see more and more high perfomance cars running turbos, diesel and biofuel.
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    All true but it will be different. I very much doubt there will ever be a car like The Veryon or The Enzo built again. I think these are the last of the Monsters. There will be new faster Supercars but they won't have the same je ne sais quoi...
     
  18. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    absolutely, I think the Lotus Elise is pointing to the future

    with enough $ & engineering talent F could make a full CF car w 500 hp + & still make 35 mpg, it might be a hybrid or diesel or both but it can be done

    Cafe standards only regulate efficiency, not max hp, so as long as you make hp efficiently and have a low vehicle weight it can be done
     
  19. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

    May 16, 2007
    5,083
    Missouri
    Just make one with a gas turbine engine and run it on corn oil. Lightweight with instant torque and very little maintenance.;)
     
  20. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 2, 2004
    72,449
    Cloud-9
    Full Name:
    Jason
    I just want to know where the hatred of cars and people who enjoy cars came from?

    That's puzzled me more than anything.
     
  21. RonnieF430Spider

    RonnieF430Spider Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2006
    995
    Westlake Village, CA
    Full Name:
    Ronnie C
    Did you know that since the dawn of mankind digging oil out of the ground, we have used about 12% of all of the oil in the areas that we have dug into. Theat leaves 88% plus there are many areas that remain untouched. Furthermore, there is a 35 mile square area in Alsaka that has a vast quantity of oil in the ground.
    Of course many feel that there would be a great danger to the ecology if we dig there. The same thing was said about the building of the Alaska pipeline, but alas there have been zero problems to the ecology because of the pipeline. Finally, because of geo thermal conditions, some sicentists now believe that the creation of oil may be an ongoing process. My point is that oil is and will continue to be an extremely cheap form of energy, and there is an abundance of it. I feel that it is important to find a way to burn it with fewer emmissions, but I also feel that it is here to stay.
     
  22. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio
    Agree.

    Even if the planet decided right now to switch from an oil-economy to.... whatever else... the changeover would require decades of gradual overhaul and investment. That will not happen fully within any of our lifetimes.

    We have a greater chance of being hit by a comet than doing away wholesale with oil.
     
  23. pdmracing

    pdmracing Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2007
    755
    atlanta
    Sure they will, I bet they will be even better.

    I collect old car magazines & I love to check out all those hot cars of the sixties, that a new honda minivan will TROUNCE in every performance catagory including top speed. The older we get the faster it was, not that the honda has the same soul, but a lot of todays cars have lots of that.

    I was at the year one muscle car shoot out last summer in my new company car, everyone was laughing & calling me gandpa in my chrysler srt8 , until I ripped off 13.1@108 quarter mile times lap after lap in 100 degree weather, spanking big block corvettes, trans ams & roadrunners that were modded & running slicks , with my sedan on all seasons goodyears no less. Never mind what its 170 mph top speed & giant brembos would do to them on a road course. Impossible dream just a few years earlier, never mind a decade earlier, & allready surpassed by a number of medium priced sedans.


    Take the porsche carrera gt, 600 hp & its a ULEV! or the honda s2000 another ulev with one of the highest hp per liter anywhere, & they are old news. The tech is there , the incentive to do it hasnt been.

    Remember, the 35 mpg cafe standard was REPEALED in 1982, there were allready cars rated @ 40 plus then, when they lowered the bar, the manufacturers. just dropped the ball. Also at that time we gave the oil companies 9 billion in tax breaks to explore alternative energy! wonder where that went? The sky is falling!!! ha.
     
  24. vlamgat

    vlamgat Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
    776
    Bingo. And just tell the politicos that they have to ride in Hybrids not Suburbans. And pity the cops about to give chase who have to bail out becuae they ran out of veggies juice or the battery is flat. With that said there are some electric vehicles producing phenomenol 0-60 times of around 3.5 secs who batteries are flat in a 1/4 mile. But economics is the real mother of invention and that too will change but probably not before we see $10 a gallon gas (in US terms) or EU 20 a gallon in the less well endowed arenas.

    Another reason to have loits of cars too - you can only drive one at a time so the gas cost is the same but the fun quotient is higher. Who needs an education when all that HP is going begging!
     

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