Bruno, I agree with you , my mistake for the trap, dubble checked my old pics, yes only #0862 at 1st got the trap and then #706 got it too
Reading the text related to The Italian Job in Kidston's book doesn't enlight at all this matter... I consider we are far ahead of him on this matter when he is not even able to fit the correct picture done with the Hasselblad camera and just present a color pigment one biased into red color instead of the original pic in orange
The text frame and content just lead people to doubt about the evidences excepted for Simon's Team... which biaised this story... and this is not THE only car in the book for which it happens, but I'm not here to make waves for the other cars, I leave owners and others to do it if they wish. BTW, globally I already enjoyed its full reading, very nice overall contribution, plenty new pics, about 20% new to me. For your info, I have also interviewed Salamone and Moruzzi. Simon had #3586 for sale a long time ago (I still have his sale offer somewhere) ? Despite I really appreciate Simon, he failed to claim it was the right car when he had the opportunity. Eric Broutin and I did that claim a long time ago, end of 2014... much before the Polo Storico finally recognised it only in 2019 for Political and strategical reasons.. Iain Tyrrell and I left #3586 after the Giro 50 Miura in 2016 to Polo Storico. It was collected in February 2017, Polo Storico had all the time to inspect it, to analyse our presentation of facts & evidences, I was at the time about once a month at the factory, all was clear for the then head of Polo Storico Enrico Maffeo in 2017 when PS provided the Classiche Certification for #3586. Cleary all the evidences are there, just a blind guy can't see them or somebody who is just bitter to have missed the train... there is no "Good Luck" to add. I wish Simon's Team is not bitter, since I sold it already two times and IMO I doubt the current owner Fritz Kaiser will appreciate the comments on his jewel. ...and about the pic, here is THE correct authentic Hasselblad image... no doubt it is clearly orange to me... as well as for #3586 which was the 1st Arancio Miura correctly spelled/written in Sgarzi and also in Pussich's lists.... instead of "more of a red..." Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Olivier, pleased you like the book overall. Regarding the Italian Job car, this subject has been covered ad nauseam over the last couple of years in magazines and the Porter book about the film. We felt we covered the subject as much as we wanted to in the Miura book – it is our book, after all – and it was not our job to say any more about its recent discovery and recognition as THE car. The text, in fact, recognises it IS the car, although other than circumstantial information (colour, spec, delivery date – that’s about it) nothing further, such as insurance documents or travel instructions to Enzo Moruzzi, has materialised to back up its claim. Please do not think we are disputing 3586 as the car in the opening sequence of film – we are categorically not. Regarding the colour, we are clearly never going to agree on this and, at the risk of repetition, the colour of 3586 now has nothing to do with it being or not being the film car. Let’s agree it is. The one colour picture used in the book is of the wrecked car (not 3586) and the reproduction shows it far more orange – yet not full Arancio Miura – than screen shots of the film or the Rex candid (not press) shot of the opening sequence car at speed over a cameraman’s shoulder. Colours can vary depending on film stock (not camera) and lighting, but the fact is that the car today is bright, light Arancio Miura, a colour that was not available until the P400S. The first Arancio Miura car is production number 279, chassis 3778. By then clients could order full red (Rosso Corsa) or proper orange (Arancio Miura). The old Rosso Miura, an orange-red was mostly dropped. Bertone records clearly show car 214 chassis 3586 as Rosso Miura. The second page in the build sheet notes Arancio Miura but at that time Rosso Miura and Arancio Miura were interchangeable at Bertone where the cars were built and painted. The film and the Rex shot show a Rosso Miura car, way different from Arancio Miura. The wrecked shot is of a different car, but in the film it, too, looks Rosso Miura. The pre-Christmas Kidston Miura Register will have more details on colour numbers and individual cars' histories. We can agree to disagree on the colour today, but please don’t misrepresent what was written in the book as in any way disputing 3586 as the opening sequence Italian Job car. Finally… I think you have misunderstood our closing paragraph. This refers to the wrecked car, not 3586. Best wishes from the Kidston team.
Steve, Yes, we agree to disagree on the colour, clearly. I don't share your interpretation ot the colour explanation, and I'm not the only one. Clearly in the 2x factory lists the 214th Miura #3586 is THE FIRST to be mentionned as ARANCIO MIURA and not the 279th #3778 as you just wrote. Your explanation of the car driven in the movie is a Rosso Miura is incorrect, a pure fantasy. Because following your explanation : in the movie, you can also notice the wrecked car has exactly the same color like the car driven, thus according to you : Rosso Miura as well. But we have the evidence/proof the wrecked car was not Rosso Miura. The reality demonstrates us with the Hasselblad picture : wrecked Miura is orange and not red... This fact leads consequently to the same conclusion : orange for the driven Miura... Arancio Miura and not Rosso Miura... both cars were orange to match, the movie shows red and you swallow it while the fact is orange thanks to the indisputable picture. You can try to play it at 360°, evidence is there. I agree with you that today the Polo Storico resprayed it in a lighter orange last year, which is a mistake. When I sold it to Iain Tyrrell it was closer to the correct colour, as we checked it. Be assure that in my book all this will be clearly stated and corrected, forgive me, I'm driven by a relentless passion... Image Unavailable, Please Login
OK... We agree it is the car, that is something. The Bertone records are from the people who actually built and painted the car. We have used these in both books. Keeping matters polite, what do you think of this: Image Unavailable, Please Login And Shah car last year at Pebble in Rosso Miura: Image Unavailable, Please Login
I don't speak about other cars... Thanks to stick to the topic please Yes, clearly the Bertone sheet shows it was rosso/black when it left Bertone.... When the Miura were unloaded from truck at Sant'Agata, they received a first document which was filled in by an employee, see my picture below. #3586 got special work... as you can see on my second pic... Lamborghini factory changed the colours scheme of the car... not Bertone... and you know like me as you are Miura specialist that the factory was respraying cars before delivery on customer or dealer request... Sgarzi, Stanzani, Wallace, Pussich, etc... all confirmed that fact. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
We have another 761 cars in the Register to discuss when that comes out, let's call it a day on this one... but thank you for your replies, Olivier.
The Hasselblad picture shown in this thread was given to me by David Salamone (who was responsible for the cars on the movie set) in 2014 while I was doing the (long) research on 3586. Looking closely at this picture, the wrecked car looked a bit too good to be true. I mean that especially on the rear bonnet there is nearly no wear in the paint despite numerous folds / creases. While discussing with David Salamone we assumed that the wrecked car had certainly been repainted : - to match the color of #3586, the driving car - Because finding another Arancio Miura in June 68 was impossible - Because of the near flawless paint on the Hasselblad picture. I have no evidence to back up my assumption, it just does make sense to me.
Thanks. I am really happy to see the story going on. I like to think that without me, the car would maybe still lying in a garage somewhere in Europe with a happy owner that would not have any idea his car was the famous Italian Job Miura. To put things straight, I started the research in 2013 and by the end of 2014 I was convinced the car was the Italian Job Miura. I posted on this thread some of the physical evidences I found on the car, and Olivier Nameche helped me confirm my finds in the ends with the documents he had accees to in the Lamborghini archives. To me the recent certification by the Polo Storico is just the official blessing of what I already knew in 2014. It is nevertheless great fo the car to have it.
After Miura 50 Giro in 2016, we left #3586 at Polo Storico for 8 months waiting for its Polo Storico Certification... Image Unavailable, Please Login
How tall are you, Olivier? The Miura looks tiny in the above picture, almost like a scale model next to you.
ah ah ah, Steve, I'm 1,92m or 6 ft 3.5 inch It was never a problem to fit in any Miura... Image Unavailable, Please Login
So who actually was the individual that discovered the similarity in the dashboard and headrest stitching on 3586 to the Italian Job Miura: EB, ON or IT?
Fellow Eric Broutin and his partner were hosting Miura P400 #3586 in their classic remise parking. Eric did the comparisson of all the interior stichings which was the start to believe it could be the one, but it was not enough. Then, I did all the researches at the factory crossing all the production dates and delivery dates + checking all details of all the 230 first Miura files leading to confirm #3586 was the right Miura. Following our demonstration (Eric and I), then, I sold it to my friend Iain Tyrrell end of 2014, he wrote The History, nobody else did before him. It is a Team work. Back in 2016, after the Giro 50 Miura Tour, we left the car for 9 months at Polo Storico, it got its Classiche Certification. Based on all evidences, it was confirmed to be the right movie car by then Head of PS Enrico Maffeo. For internal political factory reasons and for an external reason that I'm not authorised to reveal publically, the car was only recognised officially by the factory as "The" movie car for my client Fritz Kaiser I sold it to in mid 2018.
https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/lamborghini-miura-italian-job-reloaded Lamborghini SpA's Enzo Moruzzi who drove the car for the Italian Job movie comments on the color issue, swapping VIN numbers, and much more besides: “As custom and car registration manager I was the link between the admin and commercial offices,” he explains. “Commercial director Ubaldo Sgarzi sent the orders to Bertone, and when cars came back to the factory my job was to write down the colour combination, engine and chassis numbers, then get them registered. I must have done 6-7000 cars in my career. “The Paramount Pictures producer came to Sant’Agata in around March/April of 1968 and said he was looking for a car to crash, so Sgarzi went to the Reparto Assistenza [service department] and found a crashed Miura in Rosso Miura already without its chassis plates. “They took out the engine and the original owner bought a new Miura with the same engine and chassis number to avoid paying import duties!” “When filming time came in June 1968, we needed a car to match,” Moruzzi continues. “This one happened to be on the production line and in the correct colour. “Although it is officially called ‘Rosso’ it’s really orange – Mr Lamborghini wanted a red colour, but it had to be different from Ferrari red. “We took the car from the line, the test driver did the procedural 100km, then I put on Prova [test] plates and drove it from Bologna to Aosta, more than 400km. “I was careful because the car was going to be delivered as new – we disconnected the odometer to avoid the extra mileage, which is why the speedometer needle doesn’t move in the film.” “I also asked the factory to change the seats because the white ones would get dirty,” recalls Moruzzi, “but you can see the white headrests in the film.” This tiny point would later prove crucial in confirming the car’s identity. Like most early Miuras, chassis 3586 was specified with black vinyl, but from car number 165 leather became available as an option, and the order was uprated to white leather (Bianco Pelle) – the only one of the three Rosso Miura cars built in June 1968 to be so specified.Its cinematic role over, 3586 was delivered to dealer Zani in Rome on 2 July 1968.
