Is this the Italian Job Miura ?

You can't take a car's history away, but, you can always repaint it. Again. To whatever the correct color the world decides it originally was, red, orange, or something in-between.

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Absolutely, during the check up we have discovered a little leak from the clutch hydraulic master cylinder that was not there few days ago... we have not hesitated to replace it immediately with a new one in order to avoid any trouble during the Miura Giro 50...
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Amazing chase-convoy at 170 km/h following the Miura Giro 50 opening cars...


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I react when I see undeserved, holier than thou criticism directed at somebody, as has been coming from you and Joe lately. SK is not my "Boss" and I have no affiliation.

If it wasn't for Eric Broutin's research nobody today would know that 3586 is The Italian Job Miura. He is the one that deserves all the credit for the discovery with the identification of the top of the centre console, headrest and tachomter surround similarities. You only became involved after his discovery. To be honest I would not have the gall to claim any credit, like you do, for a very minor part in a discovery that was basically just an admin role after the discovery by someone else. The Register of Miuras built with chassis numbers, colours and delivery dates is published in Joe Sackey's The Lamborghini Miura Bible, so it doesn't need Sherlock Holmes to connect the dates to 3586.

You keep saying Kidston missed the chance, but he's admitted as much in a classy philosophical way I believe, and you keep banging on about it. If he had devoted a large and disproportionate amount of time to 3586 he may have missed selling one of the many other important and possibly more profitable cars he's sold. You saw Kidston's advert for the car here that you posted with all the clues that he had, so you missed it too. We all saw it, and that this Miura was available for sale, so we all missed it.

You also claim to have been advising and working for Polo Storico externally for around 3 years, and you admit that they painted the car in too light a shade, so why didn't you act for your client that you sold the car to to remedy that and get Polo Storico to paint it correctly?

As you brought up the subject of other people's missed chances, what you missed the chance to do was actually sell the car as the Lamborghini Polo Storico Authenticated Italian Job Miura, by selling it before the authentication. Yes, I know you believe that you contributed to the PS authentication process. Did you think about how much more the car is worth now with the certification? Oh, but were you clever enough to add a clause in the sale contract that would have yielded you a lot of extra money from the buyer in the event of the authentication?

 

As always, Steven you speak without knowing anything, only primary allegations.

With your vivid imagination, you figure out what's going on at Lamborghini Automobili without having a clue of what's really going on there.
You dream out loud, well you know it is better to be silent sometimes.
Besides, your knowledge is so well recognized that the factory still hasn't offered you a contract, has it ?
And do you know what rules the factory ? No, because, you just blow air...

Let's continue with your opinion on # 3586 which is sweating with bitter disappointment, if there were only 'reading Ingrid Pussich's list so easily, why haven't you discovered it yourself ?

With your science, we could have applauded your intervention ...

We needed further research and analysis. No offense, I led them and without them, along with Eric's great work, this truth would not yet be revealed today.

As for your boundless devotion to SK, your Boss (ironically), it blinds you in your judgments. I really appreciate the work and the passion of SK, you see you are wrong again about my feeling towards Simon.

However, I don't blindly applaud everything he does, and if he missed the opportunity to sell # 3586, that's a fact.

Even though he had doubts, he could not demonstrate it in his time.

Because if he had been able to demonstrate it, we can all trust him to make us such a "media hype", we still remember the fable of the brick wall...

Fortunately we escaped it.

Once again, you missed the opportunity to be discreet ... the Miura collectors who keep coming back to me systematically on your interventions and that of the SK Team, confirm to me that it is high time that you be more careful in your words because the fall could be painful ...

 

You have demonstrated that you are not discrete, and have been the polar opposite of silent in singing from the rooftops about your role, which was actually minimal to zero, in the discovery in identifying the Italian Job Miura.

What is this factory contract that you keep banging on about again and again showing the opposite of discretion and no class whatsoever? Precisely what did you do to lead Polo Storico to the discovery?

May I ask why the contract has now ended?

 

Don't tell other to act differently than you do, classy you ?

A contract is by principle confidential , sorry for your bitter curiosity.

 

Joe,

The screenshots I chose to post are from a high resolution copy of the four-minute opening sequence posted on YouTube five years ago. It may be a brighter print than other copies of the same clip and any color saturation or representation that may be perceived as wrong or misleading are unintentional on my part.

At any rate, when viewed through my baby-blue eyes on my somewhat outdated computer screen, my images appear orange and your color-corrections appear pinkish. I imagine viewing the freshly printed original film reel on the big screen at the Odeon Theatre in 1969 provided a far more accurate representation of color, but I was far too young at the time to have enjoyed that experience.

Color perception is and always will be a human condition. Display an orange-red car anywhere and some humans will see it as light red, others will see dark orange, all of whom would be absolutely correct!

As previously discussed in this thread, lighting, camera equipment and film stock quality/age all play a role in how we currently view those images. The varying weather conditions during the two days of filming and the different times of day compressed into a few minute sequence have the effect of changing the perception of color in a matter of seconds. One second you have morning mist, fog, clouds and shadows, the next frame shows the car bathed in direct sunlight at high noon. As the car navigates the mountain pass, reflections of the Alps and the clouds are captured in the car's flanks, transitioning from shade to light and back to shade again, effectively darkening the color on film.

None of which changes the original paint color on the actual car, that has been well documented.

 

Yet you tell the whole world about your factory contract. Your adherence to confidentiality is zero.

No bitterness on my part I assure you.

 

just and only in your sweet dreams !

 

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I feel like I am on an acid trip. If anyone takes exception to this post I am.

 

Sure.

Then I recommend a re-read of this magazine wherein Lamborghini SpA's Enzo Moruzzi's comments might take on a whole new perspective as you descend, meanwhile, I'm off on my preferred type of trip, a road trip along California's sunny Pacific Coast Highway.

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48 years after the recording of the film, # 3586 returned for the first time with our team.

We recreated the storyboard, filmed and followed to the letter the filming spots from the bridge up to the tunnel with the help of the Police who escorted us and closed the roads for our exclusive use.

At no time # 3586 did risk being damaged.

One day, this "Making Off" movie will be released, be patient.


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So if Enzo Moruzzi is correct in the Classic & Sports Car Article and in accordance with the first build sheet, 3586 was delivered from Bertone, finished and tested at the Lamborghini factory in Rosso Miura, an orangey red or reddy orange colour, and filmed in The Italian Job in this same colour Rosso Miura.

Seats, headrests and border between glass and steel in the rear firewall in cabin made in bianco leather. Before filming to protect the bianco driver's seat a black one temporarily substituted.

See first pic by Olivier Nameche in post here.

Not stated in the above article:

After filming, the car went back to the Lamborghini factory, got a colour change there to Arancio Miura, an orange colour, as shown in the Lavori Speciali, and was delivered to Zani Marini on 2.7.68?

See second pic by Olivier Nameche in post here.

Correct colour therefore for 3586, as filmed in The Italian Job would then be Rosso Miura, an orangey red, NOT Arancio Miura, orange, as the car is today?

 

Has the car undergone bare-metal resprays? Or would there still be a small patch of original paint(layers) available on the car somewhere? I'm afraid the debate will never be resolved using build sheets or movie stills...

 

Steven Sherlock Holmes, allow me to enlight your fantasies...

How do you make the link with the orange color of the wrecked car ?
Here is below the 1st evidence it was orange during the movie record.
Movie colour is biaised, the Hasselbald pic is not and that original pic is well preserved at British Film Institute with an official reference #BFI-00o-7xx , for everybody it is "Orange".

How do you dare to doubt about Enzo Moruzzi ? " If..."

About my contribution (and you may call me with similar fun, Hercule Poirot), back end March 2014, I had interviewed lenghtly Enzo Moruzzi for my encyclopedia in preparation.

Regarding the Italian Job car (which was another one Bull on my list to discover) , I had noted Enzo's words and I was sure of his trustee testimony far before I was involved with Eric Broutin later the same year.

Enzo was also interviewed and reported exactly the same confirmation to author Matthew Field in the book "The Self Preservation Society", see below.

Early September 2014, I spent the time and demonstrated to Polo Storico - period boss Enrico Maffeo and his team -, my analysis of the Miura production files and why it was leading to that particular VIN #3586 to be The One and Only car of that movie.... I was not a external Consultant for the Polo Storico at that time.

Then, I sold #3586 to my friend Iain Tyrrell December 2014.

Despite your allegation, #3586 was certified Polo Storico in 2017 while owned by Iain Tyrrell..

I will not developp Publically the multiples internal reasons why the factory has not officialised it was the car movie, untill my second client bought #3586 in August 2018.

Thus and once for ever to stop all your wrong fantasies, I conclude on this matter that the car was effectively ordered externally ROSSO with interior NERO, quickly erased and replaced by BIANCO pelle - white leather.

But this order/slot was also modified for "Arancio Miura" on the date of 31/05/1968, see the factory document : "Lavori Speciali".... signed by "Anna" , who is in fact Miss Anna Alberti, one of the assistant of Ubaldo Sgarzi - Head of Sales.

Which means that the car was NOT resprayed (as you suggest/assume).

Then the production process shows us the engine was tested on static bench on the 12/06/1968.

It was tested in Arancio Miura at the factory before going to Valley d'Aosta., thus it was not resprayed after the movie sequences recorded.

The car was finished on the 15/06/1968 as it is written on the bottom of the 4th page : FINITO dated and signed by Oracio Salvioli.

To not dirty the white seats during the movie record, the 2 seats were replaced by black skai ones.

#3586 was driven by Moruzzi to reach the production in Valley d'Aosta, for the recording of.the road sequences opening scene of "The Italian Job” movie between the 27th June and the 30th June 1968.

#3586 delivery was delayed while all its sister preceding and following in the production sequence were all delivered in June.

#3586 was delivered the 2/07/1968, so explain me also how you can respray a car that arrived back to factory from Valley d'Aosta on the 30th May or 1st July to be delivered the next day => "consegnato 2/07/1968" ???? .

#3586 is the 1st Miura to wear that orange color.

The next "Arancio Miura" will be VIN #3778 delivered 29th November 1968, a date impossible to match the recording scene dates.

Last fact, as Enzo explained, #3586 was choosen because it was "Orange" in order to match the wrecked Miura already sold in April 1968 to the production and which was "Orange".

I attached the builtsheet to help you to continue "your acid trip", in addition to the picture of the indicator location demonstrating also #3586 was stripped off completely , the original color was discovered under the indicator light and measured by pPg.

Have a good trip.






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You h

You have all the answers to your questions.... debate is closed !

 

Olivier,

You say that “#3586 is the first Miura painted in that orange color”.

#3568 was finished 15/6 -68

Then you say that Enzo Moruzzi means that they picked an orange Miura from the production line because they (Lamborghini) had sold an orange wrecked Miura to the film company in April 1968.

There was an orange wrecked Miura at the factory two months before the first Miura was painted orange!?

Can’t we trust Sgr Moruzzi, or did he like so many other people, take the “RossoMiura” for an orange color.

As for the “Hasselblad” picture. Althought Hasselblad is a fantastic quality camera and, as being Swedish, don’t tries to fake facts, the Gothenburg company never made films. And, as we know, it depends on the film if the pictures get more greenish, blueish or redish. Agfa, Kodak, Fuji etc. were all different in reproduction.

I have had some Miuras over the years, among them both RossoMiura, RossoCorsa and Arancio, and my experience while photographing them is that the red ones, especially the RossoMiura can easily turn to the yellow side. The only way to get an orange Miura look red is to put it on fire.

I believe that#3586 is the Miura from the film, even though it is a ten minutes work to exchange the headrests and crossing bar behind the seats. But to get the mat on the firewall in exactly the right position is a much harder if not impossible job. On the other hand you exchange a Miura seat in less than a minute.

But I have no doubt about that it was painted RossoMiura when it took part in the Italian Job. And if it was mine I would change color from Orange to RossoMiura before the day was over.

I give you some examples of different shade of orange. Just one of the pics is not RossoMiura.

L-E

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Dear Lars,

I"m reporting what is written on the Lavori Speciali : "Arancio Miura" specific paint name, which is spelt for the first time in Ingrid Pussich's list and among all the individual builtsheet. Ingrid confirmed me she has not done a mistake giving another name for a regular paint already used before... it was a specific shade used for the 1st time and used again later... her declaration matches Enzo Moruzzi's testimony, this eliminates any ambiguity.

I agree with you on the other shades already used prior to #3586 production, and your pictures demonstrate clearly what was already in the loop, even my personnal Miura #3015 was a shade of orange like your darker one...

Thus, it was also confirmed with the stripped off paint and the discovery of the little patch of original paint, pPg guy found another shade among the regular Lamborghini stamps, formula is slightly different, that's all I can tell.

The wrecked orange Miura was not of that specific shade, we agree, but to match it to the closest, #3586 was the only available orange car at production line.

2nd pic of #3586 during Portopicollo Concours after its respray by Polo Storico early 2019.


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Okay, Poirot. Not so fast, but thank you for posting the documents as I'm sure everybody here appreciates seeing them.

You ask how dare I doubt Enzo Moruzzi by using the word if? I wasn't doubting him at all. Have you not seen the question marks in my post with one in bold? The whole of my post was to analyse the information in the Classic & Sports Car article to see if anything could be learned from it. However, Moruzzi only refers to the car as being Rosso, never Arancio Miura and the correct colour to match the crashed car. If it was Arancio Miura, it does not match Rosso Miura. Anyone reading the article should be forgiven for thinking that the driving car was Rosso Miura as Moruzzi said it was in the correct colour to match the crashed car, Rosso Miura.

In fact, there is no mention whatsoever in the whole article, either by the author Alistair Clements or Enzo Moruzzi of the colour Arancio Miura. Moruzzi only talks of the crashed car being Rosso Miura and of the driving car taken off the production line to match it being in the correct colour. Rosso Miura and Arancio Miura are different colours.

"The Paramount Pictures producer came to Sant’Agata in around March/April of 1968 and said he was looking for a car to crash, so Sgarzi went to the Reparto Assistenza [service department] and found a crashed Miura in Rosso Miura already without its chassis plates.

Moruzzi even refers to the driving car as officially called Rosso, not Arancio Miura. Yes, he does say it's really orange but this probably means that it's an orangey red, but still red as Mr Lamborghini wanted a red colour, but a different colour from Ferrari red, so they used an orangey red car.

“When filming time came in June 1968, we needed a car to match,” Moruzzi continues. “This one happened to be on the production line and in the correct colour.

“Although it is officially called ‘Rosso’ it’s really orange – Mr Lamborghini wanted a red colour, but it had to be different from Ferrari red.

Even the author Alistair Clements thought the car was Rosso Miura as he refers to it as being the only one of the three Rosso Miura Miuras made in June, 1968.

"Like most early Miuras, chassis 3586 was specified with black vinyl, but from car number 165 leather became available as an option, and the order was uprated to white leather (Bianco Pelle) – the only one of the three Rosso Miura cars built in June 1968 to be so specified."

Your BF and partner Iain Tyrrell even refers to the driving car in the opening scenes of the film as being "orangey red" in his video at the point here.

You talk of my allegation regarding the Polo Storico authentication being after you sold it to the current owner. Well, you have never said previously when the car was actually authenticated and the article implies that it was authenticated from the more recent research collated since being owned by Fritz Kaiser in late 2018, so please forgive me or anyone for not having psychic powers and to know that the certification was actually in 2017. It hadn't been made public until May, 2019, when it was all over the net, that the car had been authenticated by Polo Storico. It was actually me that posted about it and updated this thread in this post here. I see you blotted out the date on the Certificazione di Autenticita. Why was that?

"He (Eric Broutin) and subsequent UK owners Keith Ashworth and in particular Iain Tyrrell collated an extensive file of evidence, which formed the basis of the more recent research since the car moved to Liechtenstein and current keeper Fritz Kaiser in late 2018."

As an observation, there is no mention of you in the article.

 

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Also, Iain has clearly edited or photoshopped the colour of the car in the video at the point here to look "orangey red" from the orange it really is, as is shown in the rest of the video below.

 

Many thanks for posting these documents Olivier. Who signed off on the "collaudo il" field in that first picture?

 

If you look at the way the camera cradle was mounted on the door of 3586 for filming in this image by David Wynn-Jones, I can only imagine it required some TLC prior to delivery to it's first owner.

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