Is this the standard of Concourses in the future??? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Is this the standard of Concourses in the future???

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Horse, Dec 3, 2017.

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  1. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    The outright winners at the past 3 or 4 national rallies have all been older cars, only the 2017 outright winner ( 328 GTS) had been classiche certified The standard of this years national rally winner was incredibly high ( it's an original, unrestored car ) and this took a few people by surprise. To say that you need a new car to win outright is simply not supported by the evidence.
    The adoption of the standards based, international judging rules has been a shock to some owners whose car's have won previously under a much less rigorous system, the Qld "F40" replica incident mentioned by John M being a prime example of how flawed the old judging standards were and why change was needed.
    Under the previous rules a clean glossy car with non original paint type/colour, non original wheels and retrimmed interior ( incorrect material / style ) and aftermarket exhaust could outscore an original car that had age appropriate patina and signs of use.
    M
     
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  2. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The replica should never have been allowed to enter.

    If originality was judged by knowledgeable people the unoriginal car would loose too many points to be competitive under the old system.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  3. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Loose? Like your brain?
     
  4. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    It was a "lose" interpretation by him :p

    Leave him alone, he's knows what he's typing :D
     
  5. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Never got a chance ... it was a spur of the moment and I had nothing to "loose" :p
     
  6. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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  7. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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  8. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    ....................and I for one of us here,have some of 'em sitting in pride of place on my restored sideboard.......................thangyouverymuch.
     
  9. greg246

    greg246 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Trophygate


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  10. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Lol, yep. :D
     
  11. creafield

    creafield Formula Junior

    Oct 21, 2004
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    John M said his car was beaten by '2 ratty 308s' - Under the ICACPFA system your car is awarded either a Platinum ((Any cars 95+), Gold (1 car 91 - 94) or silver award (1 car 85 - 90) or nothing. Scan & send me the judging sheets I would be interested to see whether the ICAC system has been modified for Australia - I hope not.

    Horse - Entrants should be given their judging sheet afterwards, so they can see where they could improve. The ccmmentnt the car should be retrimmed etc.would only be given in order to get maybe 1/2 or 1 point extra etc. A car that is bog standard with absolutely nothing done to it and is 100% original should still score well. If two cars, say a really original 246 and the hyper restored 246 I saw in Sydney, were next to each other, then both could score Platinum. However when scoring for best in show, then the other scoring come into play.

    The object is to have cars judged against themselves ... not other cars. I feel that Concours is very important for the preservation of the marque. I used to track my 308, but one day I realised I was just a boy racer ... obsessions with times and so are a bit meaningless as we spend more and more money on 'tweaks' (tyres, suspension settings, springs etc etc etc.) Eventually my car was very uncomfortable to drive on rough roads. The drive to Noosa for the Rally in ??? was a nightmare through Derby(??) etc

    I will be away from the internet for a few days, however if anyone wants the method of judging for the ICACPFA system email or PM me.
     
  12. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Phil, hope your health is well, my car was judged under the old system .

    I remember in '07 at Canberra when you introduced the new system my QV was not up to standard and you took my car for a drive and pointed out what I needed to do ............. I took the easier route, bought Peter's car :)
     
  13. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    fixed :p
     
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  14. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Phil, I have no doubt that was the intention but unfortunately what I think the 'gold/platinum' thing has done is introduced a base standard that has now becoming a target for people to get with an eye to future sales. The originality direction is great if that was possible, but we all know the experts can argue from week to week on what is 'correct', particularly on the older cars.
     
  15. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This is by far the best idea! The gold/platinum thing is just a precursor to the classiche rubbish driving up 'collections' at the expense of driver cars. I think 2 of the concorso entrants tracked their cars....
     
  16. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    I love the way that whenever this topic comes up, it provides a soapbox for people who aren't interested in concorso to take a dump on the idea of it.

    Preserving the originality of every Ferrari is in everyone's best interest. Otherwise there are a million scumbags who'd be selling cars with wrong engines, wrong paint, wrong whatever they could get away with.
     
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  17. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Bullcrap. Been there...done that....won a trophy. It's a farce.
     
  18. freaky1

    freaky1 Formula Junior
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    Why not just pay and get the car classiche certified by Ferrari. That way you get your shiny binder saying car is original, and avoid all the inherent nightmares associated with concours ?
     
  19. Horse

    Horse Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Lol, how much?
     
  20. freaky1

    freaky1 Formula Junior
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    A kidney at minimum or about the equivalent of 100-200 concours entry fees depending on who you ask
     
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  21. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    What's it to you? You'll never afford it. TM rob the moron.
     
  22. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    "inherent nightmares". Holy overstatement Batman.

    Classiche certification means that a car is in it's original specification, it doesn't mean it's original.

    Oh, and Classiche can't be relied on, e.g. Ferrari's engine number records for 246 Dinos are quite innacurate.
     
  23. freaky1

    freaky1 Formula Junior
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    Not sure I agree Ian, depends on effort and outcome. I was sitting with people at the Xmas Party who were ready to throw their concours trophys in the water based on frustration and lack of understanding and explanation as to results.
     
  24. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Which begs the question of if the accuracy of the factory based Classiche is doubtful (which I think many now do), then why are the local experts any more reliable? Sorry, this is NOT intended as a slur against the local judges whom I do admire for their knowledge and dedication to the job... BUT the reality is, that NOBODY knows how a lot of the older cars left the factory, particularly towards the end of model runs and transition times when bits were just picked out of the nearest parts bin. I think the 'originality ' idea was beautiful, but not workable and is providing other distortions as we now see. Hence my support of the old show and shine idea.
    Does anyone have a pic of the 2009 Qld rally concorso with around 75 beautiful cars parked in a circle in Toowoomba park? Not all were judged, but all were shiny and there for all to see.
     
  25. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And do you really think concorso changes any of this?
    I'm not against concorso, for me it *used* to be an opportunity to see some beautiful special cars; I don't think that's the spirit anymore - it's become 'get a platinum trophy so you can add bigger digits to the price'. Not what was intended, but unfortunately, a nasty unintended effect consequence which saw less than 20 cars presented at the national rally celebrating Ferrari 70th anniversary. Very sad, and not the organizers fault I understand.
     

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