Is this the standard of Concourses in the future???

You are wrong Karen, plenty of people in Australia know quite a lot of how older cars left the factory and newer cars as well. No one person knows all, but between the group of knowledgable judges we cover 95% of what's needed. There are sometimes odd aspects to certain cars, but given that we only have a small population of cars to deal with, it doesn't take long for the facts to surface.

Our system is working, it was developed by Ed Gilbertson specifically to address the objective of prioritizing originality and is used around the world, including by Porsche, Bentley and many other marque clubs.

We clearly need to do a better job explaining how it all works to entrants and ensuring they get the feedback to improve in future. The owner is meant to be present during judging and I always explain where points are being lost.

Clearly in the case of Peter's 246, the judge was wrong to ping the car for not having a restored interior, this won't happen again.

 

Can you explain the difference to a layman like myself Ian.

 

I guess I'm 'anyone here' in this case.

Happier times...........

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Well I DID get mine around the correct way!

 

Thanks Horse and Klink for the pic - interesting to see the diversity, as well as the numbers, just 8 years ago.
Mind you all this hand writing probably is a waste of breath, because as someone pointed out, the demographic has changed and a big chunk of the people aren't really interested in the cars today. There were probably more than that number of cars parked in the (lovely) not-for-judging paddock at the recent Rally but only a handful of people bothered to walk around checking them out. Most just parked and headed for the coffee van; not sure all even bothered to check out the actual entries. So sad...

 

Just for the record,whilst I WAS always going to put the 330 in the concour,I didn't expect to win because there were 2 Daytona's that would have beaten it.
The owners declined to compete.

The same thing happened at my first FNR in ACT,my 365 which wasn't much good in the body or interior,won Best Post '73 V12,when it shouldn't have.

So both were hollowish victories and I wouldn't sell my cars on that basis.

The 330 sold because of what it was,not for the concour stuff.

 

Original means with the same body, paint, trim, mechanical bits as the day it left the factory.

Original specification under Classiche means the same colour and trim material but could have been restored and everything apart from engine and gearbox could have been replaced. In fact if the car has lost its original engine they'll sell you a new one (at outrageous cost) and restamp it. Also, a car can be certified with borrowed parts (happens more than you think) then presented at concorso with incorrect parts.

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The general carpark had a few great looking 12 cylinder carby cars including a Daytona, Queen Mother, Boxer, 330GT and 330GTC.

There was also Dino’s, GT4s and various 308 GTBs and GTS’ to look at.

As you know, there were a few other fantastic carby cars already parked in the Exhibition Building for the general public to view at Motorclassica later that week. I assume that none of those cars were able to make an appearance at the FCA National Rally as they were participating in Motorclassica.

It was good to see you using your car as intended on the track. I look forward to comparing lap times in SA in 2018. Hopefully I will be driving my car by then and I will have put it through the Concorso process earlier in the week having driven it from Sydney.


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This was one of the problems with the "old" system, where cars competed against each other for a win, and if the standard of the cars in that class was low then a win didn't really mean much when compared to a win in a class where there were several excellent cars. Under the new system cars are judged and awarded either a platinum for more than 95 points, gold for more than 90 points (and in some events a silver for more than 85 points.)
The best of show will be the highest scoring car, which would have also achieved a platinum.
Under the "old" system the best of class at one event could not be reliably comparable to another event, as the "best" at an event could have simply been the best of a very average group of cars. Also under the FCA class rules for national rallies a class was formed when at least 3 cars entered the event - however if only one of those cars was entered in the concours it would ( by default) win the class concours trophy. I get that it's not the entrants fault the other cars didnt participate but a win under those circumstances is a pretty hollow victory ( as Simon mentioned ) and not comparable to class win where perhaps 8 cars where judged. Unfortunately some owners are not as ethical as Simon and would quite happily advertise their car as a "national rally concorso class winner" despite winning in a class of 1.

I suspect that some of the resistance to the "new" judging system is that in order to achieve a platinum award the car needs to meet a pretty high standard and not just beat the other entrants on the day ( as used to be the case).

With regard to the number of concorso entries at this years national rally, this was somewhat reduced by the cars the FCA provided for the 70th Anniversary display / concorso at MotorClassic ( it was not possible to enter both events due to timing conflicts so owners sent their "concorso" car to Motorclassica and used another car for the rally.

M

 

Following on from what Ian said, lots of misunderstanding about what Classiche is and what is allowed. Essentially at minimum the car has to be the same configuration and mechanical specification as it left the factory.
A car will receive Classiche with the correct type of engine for that car, ( it does not have to be the original engine number ) however this will be noted in the classiche book. A colour change is OK too, but it will be noted in the book, however changing the bodywork ( ie taking the roof off a Daytona will render the car ineligibe) , as will mechanical changes such as fitting larger brakes or wheels. The Classiche process does not care about cleanliness or condition, however most people want to present their cars as well as possible because the pictures end up in their Classiche book. Cost varies depending on model, $4 to $8K as a guide.

M

 

I still think it's a dumb waste of money.....but what do I know?

 

Depends, probably money well spent if you are selling an older, valuable car, lots of buyers new to the marque that are influenced by something like this.

 

Well, from what I am hearing, inconsistency and members’ lack of knowledge of the judging criteria and rules seems to be the biggest gripe. As I said earlier, I agree with the concept of the system, judging a car on its merits. But not everyone who wants to concours their car, is interested in the possible sale value/increase a platinum award may or may not deliver. Perhaps the national committee could begin with sending an email to all members outlining the judging rules and criteria. It’s certainly not JUST Qld that has complaints, and I think some clarity in the process would go some way to helping the situation.


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You can only imagine what it will be like in another 30 years time.

 

yeah but you and I were among the few who bothered to checkout the car park....
And it was also a shame to see so many great Ferrari at Motorclassica not on the national anniversary rally, but that's probably a fair indication of how things are going...

 

Pardon?

 

I find it difficult to find any favour in cars a few months old winning platinum. And I can't use technology

 

[QUOTE=". And I can't use technology[/QUOTE]

Well that's a lie.......look at all the electronics you have plastered to the windscreen of your 308.

 

Sorry Kena, if you think I left you out of the 'true believers' who spent time in the field - I'm sure you did!

 

It's ok K. The old system gave me anither reason to polish & clean my ohos but like you I bought it to drive.

 

+ 365 & 308!

There ain't nuthin' better than driving a carbied Ferrari at full noize!

 

Well that's a lie.......look at all the electronics you have plastered to the windscreen of your 308.[/QUOTE]
Just trying to have the modern stuff with carnies & the blue teeth thingy is probably easier than in a modern car.

 

Once again timed out re trying to edit this stupid new system.

I wasn't going to post any vids re ^^^^ this comment,until I found this one and started to read the attached comments......number eight stands out................literally.....apparently !!!!!




Baz82
Baz82
4 years ago
i got nipples like football studs listening to that....very happy girl =)