Italian Andrea Mame killed in Paul Ricard accident

I have a feeling there's about to be a global crackdown on physicals submitted for racing...lots of older/gentlemen drivers seem to be dying lately.

(with no further information on this accident/cause of death it's hard to speculate, but except for the Simonsen crash all of the recent deaths I've heard of in racing have been 40+ gentlemen/hobby drivers). I think the fitness requirements are about to change.

 

R.I.P

 

RIP - terrible news.

 

Andrea was a friend and team-mate at Kessel Racing 2010/Italian GT and I saw him with Lambo Trofeo 2011,2012 and 6 hours Vallelunga each November...he was in good physical shape and no health/heart issues...I have not been able to video/youtube incident and Paul Ricard is a VERY SAFE track...so I can only note that the impact forces were too much to withstand,not unlike my 2006 FIA GT3 team-mate Allan Simonsen...racing is still a dangerous sport although we don't care to think about that...IlDottore(Stephen Earle MD)

 

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

"Older gentlemen"? C'mon, get real. Mame was 41. Do you know of any details about the accident that might confirm this speculation? As a reminder, Jack Brabham won his final WDC at 40, and Fangio did it at 46.

This is certainly very sad and also worrisome as it follows so closely on the heels of Simonsen's (age 34) Le Mans accident, but to jump to conclusions regarding the cause serves no purpose.

 

I was referring not just to this accident but several others recently in the US, all of which involved gentlemen drivers over 40 (read: not professional, probably not fit). two of the deaths in the US involved drivers having heart attacks while behind the wheel. I believe the crash at the VLN race a few weeks ago was the same.

as mentioned in the previous post, I don't have details on the Super Trofeo accident (I still haven't seen any more info), but there does seem to be a trend...and that trend is a) old(er) drivers, b) not full time racers (remember Trofeo, like Ferrari Challenge, is a gentlemen driver series), c) potential lack of appropriate physical fitness and/or pre-existing medical issues. I think there will be a crackdown soon.

and Brabham and Fangio were in open cockpit cars (not as hot as closed cockpit GT cars) and I'd wager that a modern GT car subjects the drivers to greater forces than a 50s/60s era F1 car. so not really apples to apples comparisons.

 

There is an unfortunate trend by those who apparently don't race (at least not with winning pace) and are ignorant of the facts to blame deceased drivers for mistakes or other "defects," in this case "fitness."

I race, albeit as a club racer (primarily, but a few junior pro races like MX-5 and Dodge Viper Cup), and at a competent level, for example finishing top 10 in the 4 spec races at COTA in 85-car SM and SRF fields (2 of those were top 5 including a win), and managed 7th and 4th at the June Sprints in SRF, blowing a lead due to a "mistake."

My fitness level is just fine - I ran a 3:30 marathon at 40 (and don't consider myself much of a runner) and now at 52 still race competitively in part due to a fitness regimen. I think you may find that most racers consider fitness an important part of their overall preparation and race training. I sure do.

Racing is intrisically risky and dangerous. If you are fast, you are at the limit of grip just as much as you possibly can be, trying to keep the car on the circumference of the friction circle at all times. Odd confluences of events can and do happen, such as debris or fluid on track, crashes around you, mechanical problems, and more. The permutations are endless. And yes, perfect precision on every turn of every lap is simply impossible - call it a mistake if you want, but not in the sense that a "better" driver would never have made the mistake. It is the relentless pursuit of perfection that causes most drivers to metion "mistakes."

I guess it is human nature to want to blame avoidable circumstances when a significant incident occurs and a driver dies, but I think that ignores reality. I doubt any deceased driver would expect sympathy, as anyone who races accepts and assumes the risk, but I bet most would resent the dogs sitting on the porch telling them how it should have been done.

I have no idea what happened here, but to immediately speculate that the driver was not competent or otherwise made a "mistake" is callous and ingorant IMO and unless you really know what it is like to race, and race well, you have precious little room to criticize a racing driver. The comments about competence and fault almost come off to me as an inmplication that the driver somehow deserved to die. That can't be so, I know, but still part of me feels that way. Frankly, almost every incident I see I think: "there but for the grace of god . . . ." I certainly try to learn and put another skill in my quiver, but rarely do I think I could never hav had the same thing happen.

Now I expect to get disagreement from those with "racing" experience in the pits or stands and certainly some drivers are better than others, but I don't accept that drivers like Senna, McLaren, and countless others could somehow be alive today if only they were "mistake" free.

 

Further to the above, I got called out for an unfair attack, and I do apologize if it was viewed that way. But as to this particlar driver, I don't think we know the cause or if it had anything to do with his medical condition, and I do tend to go off when a dead fellow racer is criticized (I drew the inference that Mame may have been accused of being too old or feeble, which does strike a nerve). Excerpts of my response to a private message about this thread and my post:

As for fitness requirements, a medical exams are currenlty required and the examining physician is adomonished that:
RACING is a very physically demanding sport.
Please perform your examination and recommendation with that in mind

This is in bold, red print on the SCCA examination form here: The Sports Car Club of America - About

The NASA form is even stronger:

A. The functional suggested requirements of a driver in a competition automobile are:
1. Ability to rapidly operate acceleration, braking, and steering mechanisms / systems.
2. Vision: distant vision correctable to 20/40 each eye, ability to distinguish basic colors, and peripheral vision to
70 degrees in the horizontal median for each eye.
3. Should have minimal chance of sudden incapacitation from any disease process.
4. Ability for rapid mental activity, problem solving, and decision-making.
B. The environment this applicant may operate in is:
1. Temperature extremes from 0 degrees (F) to 120 degrees (F) for long periods of time.
2. Smoke, fumes, vapor, caustic chemicals, and dust.
3. Loud noise and vibration.
4. Increased potential for exposure to fire

I have to think that other organizations have similar requirements. I am not sure what kind of changes anyone would suggest on the medical front that would be effective. You might suggest a limited group of doctors, like there are for FAA Airmen's Medicals, or more frequent exams (I already go every other year), or some kind of "audit," but I think that will only burden the drivers and organizers without excluding many "unfit" racers. Also, heart attacks are notoriously hard to predict - a friend of mine who was very fit, as in cycling hundreds of miles a week, was on a cycling trip some years ago and at dinner after a ride (mind you in total relaxation mode, so not even under stress) had a massive infarction and would have died, had there not been a cardiologist at the next table. Trust me, the guy who is "dying" to go racing is going to go find a doctor and lie to him (or lie to the oragnization-appointed doctor) if need be about cardiac history or other problems, and unless the resting EKG or external exam catches the driver out, the medical form will get completed with all systems go. Those of us who follow the rules will just face extra burdens.

So no offense meant, and hopefully none taken, but the above details are some of the many specific reasons I do not agree with the non-racers on this topic; I just donlt think they have the experience to fully comment on racing. I'd gladly tell anyone this to their face, over a cold adult beverage and with no animosity at all. I am not an anonymous internet troll - my full name is right here and I don't use a "handle" (reminds me of the stone ages with CB radios and Smokey and the Bandit, but I digress). I welcome everyone to racing and hope tehy all get to do as much of it as they want and that they come to excel. I love a good, even heated, debate, and try not to spout off without at least some facts to support my position; I also can be persuaded, albeit I am hard-headed. Maybe I could be persuaded that there is some kind of practical, effective way to do medical screening better than it is currently done that would persuade me that some of the generic remarks about improved medical screening were well taken.

So debate me with facts and specifics (but not generic statements about better medical scrutiny), I don't mind, and again no offense meant. I just happen to be very passionate and competitive about racing and wear that on my sleeve. Fellow racers are brothers and no one gets to dis' them without some real solid facts in support!

I'll close with saying a man died and in my view any remarks about his death should be carefully measured, and fully supported in line with the gravity of the loss to his family and the sport.

Cheers to all and again my apologies if what I posted was taken as a personal attack.

 

All the losses in the past few weeks have been terrible.

Having said that, I might try and look up "deaths per 1,000 user days". I'd speculate that golf and tennis have higher mortality rates due to underlying health issues than racing.

As for safety, Simonsen's accident was a stunner; if you have yet to read Dr. Jim Norman's analysis, you need to.

I race, have done some pro stuff, I'd like to think I'm competent and sometimes competitive. Safety is key - I have a family and a lot to live for. Safety in higher-level motorsport is actually impressive, considering it involves hurtling in gasoline-filled, hot vehicles on the edge of control. (I am unsure if all grassroots series enjoy the same benefits).

As for Mame, I have yet to see or hear any context of what happened. Sounds like quite a few cars and drivers involved. I saw a Lambo Trofeo car today, parked next to a 458C. Looked like a similarly stout car. However this happened, hopefully we can learn from it to improve safety even more....

 

Well said.

 

Rest In Peace sir....

 

Andrea Mame Lamborghini Crash ( ENDURANCE ) - Racing News Network

Main gallery | Photos | Motorsport.com

 

Looks like a bad hit. I'd like to know more about the incident and whether there is a problem with the car's design in any way. That's pure speculation, and I'm not suggesting there is, but it has been suggested to me that there are some concerns about the Lamborghini's crash-worthiness.

Anything can happen on a race track, so without further information I am more likely to put this down to a racing incident than anything along the lines of a problem with the car itself. Still, it's worth asking. Did the safety equipment do its job? What was the cause of death? Not to be insensitive, but if people are going to be pushing these cars at racing speeds, owners/drivers need to know whether there's some issue.

CW

 

One thing I do wonder about with modern cars with non-ferrous chassis is how to get the ferrous roll cage to bond with the (aluminum in this case) effectively. I built a Lotus-based race car not too long ago and we studied how to get a cage to bear loads into the chassis without creating stress concentration points or tearing off the thin aluminum extrusions.

I would want to study the cage to be sure it did its job.

 

a vetted scientific and engineering analysis would prove insightful.

All of my track cars (and a few of my road cars) have had full, welded steel roll cages that were as much for safety as chassis rigidity.

I will say that the (bolted-in) steel cages in my 430C and 458C made me think a bit (the steel cages are bolted in and anchored to the otherwise aluminum tub). However, I've now seen some incredible impacts with these cars (with and without the cages) and I am impressed with how the 458/458C holds up. Countless YouTube videos out there, but I have also seen these cars balled up with my own eyes.

(in the 458C, the cage, seats, belts and fire/kill systems are FIA compliant and homologated).

I am unsure if/how the Lambo compares. I did have an up-close look at a Super Trofeo car just yesterday, it's certainly different but looked professionally prepared at a glance.

It may sound morbid, but I'd hope it was a "freak, one-off" reason that caused the fatal injury, as it appears Simonsen's did. As a racer, part of me wants to know all of the details, part of me does not.

 

I like and agree with everything you said.

 

Buona sera. Just got e-mail from Ronnie Kessel who was at Paul Ricard during the incident...1st lap on back straight before the chicane(which is sometimes used,like GT Open) Andrea was touched by another competitor at the rear of the car and went right in to wall...concrete without any protection/tires/etc....deceleration too much like in Allan Simonsen incident...gone at the scene...IlDottore(Stephen Earle MD)

 

might be time for a thread on "driver safety", but given this conversation and the news of the past few weeks, today I met with an engineer who is going to fit me for an FIA 8860 helmet and I've ordered upgraded (i.e. safer) seats for my race car.

While pricey ($), well within the equivalent realm of a couple sets of tires or a day of testing. Better to be safe

 

One cannot put a price on driver safety. Better to spend funds on driver safety aids than engine, chassis aero upgrades

 

^^This^^ RIP, pilota...

Ya'll be careful out there.

 

They ran demo laps of this car at Grand Am event 2 weeks ago. Series to come to US next year.
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BTW, I understand GrandAm has concerns about the cage and has asked Lamborghini to improve them.

I don't think that would have helped in this instance, however.

CW

 

so far the Super Trofeo cars are ~ 2 seconds faster than the ALMS GTC cars at Lime Rock this weekend (and that's on a short, 1 minute lap)....so yes, quick cars that need to be up to the task, safety wise.