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Italy Seeks to Shield Supercar Makers From Combustion Engine Ban

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by JTSE30, Sep 4, 2021.

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  2. MrF355

    MrF355 Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2008
    465
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    Kimi
    What they say makes sense especially when you look at the average distance a Ferrari, Pagani, Lambo are driven each year. The emissions are not that great to make any significant adverse impact on global warming. The greenies and woke brigade will not see it that way and will use all their influence to ensure no exemption is granted.
     
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  3. maha

    maha F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2014
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    mahmud
    the uk should also come up and support their niche car industry.. i blame uk politicians for this 2030 ice car ban nonsense.... they started it first
     
  4. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,736
    I would personally accept a mileage limit (say 3,000 per year) to get such an exemption. But it continues to astonish me that governments around the world don't understand how electricity is made and distributed and what hazards old batteries will create.
     
  5. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,674
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Ev doesn’t return a positive environmental impact until around 30,000 miles or so due to the massive impact of producing and disposing of the batteries. When compared to a normal ice engine.

    How many supercars do that many miles?
     
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  7. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Unfortunately I am so jaded... That I fully expect politicians to make the same exact decions a 15 year old running for class president would make.

    The dumbest choice with the least amount of understanding of the pros and cons of every aspect of the decision... But the one that feels the best.

    This movement isn't about logic or reasoning it's about morons being in power and doing things to get reelected.

    They aren't making these choice for you... They are making it for them...
     
  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 TheMayor, Sep 5, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
    I say NO exemption. Let people understand what they are losing.

    Honestly a kid born in 2035 will probably only see a Ferrari in a museum anyway.

    By the year 2050 we will consider this golden age of "super cars" like we think of Steam Cars today. Quaint, interesting, useless.
     
  9. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
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    Why won't this forum software allow me to 'LIKE' this post 500 times???

    Kevin
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  10. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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  12. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Veteran
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    I'm really not to worried. I think for sure that hyper miler ICE engines will still be allowed. However, you won't get the intense environmentalists to have a lot of sympathy for the plight of the exotic manufacturers. But it's worth a try . . . . good luck.
     
  13. craze

    craze Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2021
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    Michael
    I really dont see why such exotic manufacturers need a full ban, it needs to be perhaps some arrangement like development of hybrid etc, but yes anyone should be able to drive these cars! The public will show what they want by the way they purchase, it will sort itself out.

    Apparently cruise ships produce more c02 emmisions than cars in the whole world, seems like no one cares though.

    My personal view on global warming is that capping cars etc is rather pointless, a lot is made from industry.

    Everything is designed to fail which in turn leads to more production, more waste, my mum and dad had a tv and drier for 40 years! LOL Maybe any manufacturer should be fined if a product doesnt last 10 yrs min
     
  14. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
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    Tom
    You guys are so old and closed minded. Do you guys not understand the performance gains of an electric drive train? You guys are all about the driving experiance..you shoukd ve embracing thus tech..not trying to kill it. The electric car is everything you want in a fun car to drive. Gas is a joke and will be laughed at in the short years to come.

    Open up your minds are really look at the advantages for perforce driving. It is the ideal performance solution.
     
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  15. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2016
    607
    It is already too late if enthusiasts are posting on this and other car sites how great electric cars are . Even car mags have bought into the idea. In twenty five years we will all be driving(if we are even allowed to drive by then) the EUs electric equivalent of the YUGO, thinking we saved the world from destruction even though the seas have risen, the storms have worsened (global warming continues unabated until Mother Earth decides to go the other way when it is good and ready) and China controls not only Asia but the Mideast, Africa, South America and the EU. The US will be a mere shadow of itself second guessing every decision it makes so it won’t upset anyone.
    Italian government officials see it happening and are praying for an exemption. The problem is the far left and right( are they both the new centrists?) don’t believe in exemptions(or praying). They have no compassion, no consideration, no flexibility. It’s their way or the highway and they are coming for you, me, the Italians and anyone else who don’t believe in their mantra.
    In fact it’s too late, they have already arrived.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  16. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2004
    2,401
    Austin TX
    serious? maybe you are joking?

    for example, track weekend, 200 cars running, you go out 4 times a day, 25 minutes full out, 90 minutes or so between run groups...an electric car can do this? which one? I presume there will not be (50) 800v 350kWh chargers ($100,000 each, installed) available to keep everyone topped off between runs...never mind that it is very difficult to charge a battery at a high rate that is overheating...
     
  17. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    All what you say is true..right now. But you forget how fast battery tech is moving forward. Google graphene battery tech..thus is what us being worked on, and could be here sooner then we think.
     
  18. nicolaprince

    nicolaprince Karting

    May 16, 2021
    147
    Bologna, Italy
    Full Name:
    Nicola Prince
    I am 44, I got in love with Ferrari in the very early '80s, and 6 weeks ago I got mine and fulfilled the dream. :D

    My 3 nephes are between between 16 and 22 and none of them gives a s*** to cars.

    While I am not representing the whole universe of those ho are in the middle of their forties, and my nephes are not representing the whole universe of the 20-somethings, I have a feeling that our generations on average have a different approach to life and to sportscars.

    Quite possibly, in 2035 no one or very few will wish to buy a new ICE sportscar, least not to look like a dinosaur. For the vast majority of buyers a sportscar is and will be above all a status symbol and a luxury item to wear in the mating arena - a big thank you to prof. Gaad Sad for explaining this so clearly in his "The consuming instinct", which I recommend you all to read. So in the near future, provided that men will keep investing in their perceived status and women will keep beautyfiing themselves (the book finally unvealed why women crave to have 400 pair of high heels in the wardrobes - a must read just for this paragraph!:D), imho there aren't very big reasons why ICEVs should be preferred over BEVs in any segment. It will be as if today one would prefer a firewood car to a gasoline one.

    The big difference between ICEVs and BEVs is clearly the engine sound, but beyond my true love for my carburetors I cannot believe that the future genarations will value it over the perception of looking smart and environment attentive - which will be two bigger assets to attract the nicest mates.

    Vintage cars, quite possibly, imho will have a much longer life because will become more and more like rare ancient pieces of art on wheels, something for true connoisseurs (my category, I think) or for... the most eccentric mate searchers!

    You all have a good day!
    Nic

    p.s. many years ago I found this chart, which should still represent the current situation and the actual contribution to greenhouse emissions by sector.


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  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,209
    EU wont even exist in 2030 ...thank me later
     
  20. craze

    craze Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2021
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    Michael
    Ive been part of other hobbies that have involved battery tech for over 20 yrs

    And always some new tech was coming, and guess what? It never did, but its always around the corner
     
  21. therryzsx

    therryzsx Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2011
    826
    many environmentalists are just commies who hate succesfull people, this so caled activists educated in bad college with low salary after graduate scream tax the rich, they don't care how low impact on climate have Ferrari or Lambo, they just want to spoil the mood of wealthy people :D :D :D
     
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  22. craze

    craze Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2021
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    Michael
    I remember a company i used to work at, they had an environmental team, they did various things
    They were delighted when the company lost its major contact, as there was such a waste reduction lol
     
  23. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2004
    2,401
    Austin TX
    Ok, so I did,

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21108-4

    https://www.lightmetalage.com/news/industry-news/applications-design/ev-range-breakthrough-with-new-aluminum-ion-battery/

    additional of above:

    https://greenracingnews.com/gmg-announces-aluminum-ion-and-graphene-batteries-for-2024/

    hmm:
    The graphene cells experimentally yield between 150 and 160 Wh/kg

    curiously, Tesla battery has a density approaching 500Wh/kg
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/4/18293989/innolith-ev-battery-breakthrough-lithium-ion

    and so far zero graphene batteries made in a size/power density/capacity (per 'pouch') that would be needed for an EV battery pack

    and zero graphene batteries are available for purchase in any size (there are graphene coated batteries mostly for better heat dissipation)

    apparently coin sized graphene batteries might be available next year

    long long way to go, if ever, biggest issue is perfecting the production process as defect-free graphene is what is required for battery production

    keep an eye on this news aggregator site:
    https://www.graphene-info.com/
     
  24. DBomb117

    DBomb117 Karting

    Jun 20, 2019
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    Connecticut
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    Dimitriy Kosovay
    Under current projections the world supply of lithium should run out in ~40 or so years. Faster if electric car production is set to increase. I think the future is in hydrogen ICEs. It is not terribly complicated to convert existing ICEs to this technology as well.

    The problem with electric I think will be the longevity and the electricity production (70% of electricity in USA comes from fossil fuels anyway). ICE cars are the most recycled product on earth, meanwhile cellphones and their lithium batteries are trashed constantly. An ICE vehicle has way less environmental impact that an ICE vehicle that will very likely run to 200k miles in this day and age.

    Many kids that go to college in this age become indoctrinated and don’t actually learn anything. Modern ICE engines are incredibly clean and someone already mentioned that cruise ships produce more CO2 than cars. Climate change can’t be prevented or affected by humans no matter how hard we try. It’s the sheer arrogance of the majority of our species. Say that all ICE are gone and there are no CO2 emissions. Wow success! Except the earth can drift a couple million miles closer to sun in orbit or farther or a solar flare can wreak havoc. The Earth always cycles through hot and cold we just don’t live long enough to see it.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  25. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    If you want to be really wealthy start investing in battery tech companies..I have and my returns so far have been quite impressive. This arrival of new tech could be a gold mine for car enthusiasts who understand how this stuff works and the need for it. So maybe we will have the greenies to thank for making us wealthy.

    It is not all doom and gloom.
     
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  26. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Yes these sites are the same as I have been reading. Mark my words..by the end of this year one of these companies will have a major break through. It just a matter of time. I'm buying up shares where I can. It is not a big investment..many of these companies are in the 2-3 buck range per share. Throw a couple grand at each one and hold it. The returns could be pretty good.
     
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  27. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #25 F2003-GA, Sep 6, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
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