It's broken AGAIN!!!!!!

This is just great! Earnie's post scared the s*** out of me! I just checked out a 348 TB SS yesterday and have been looking for one for a while. I spent about 20 minutes in the car:

http://chicago-motor-cars.ebizautos.com/detail.aspx?iid=1124465

During those 20 minutes, I saw the following:

- Windows don't work (passenger side opens at turtle speed then stops!)
- The 1/4 Engine light in on and the guy has no clue why... he said it it was not on yesterday.
- switch panel is sticky.
- Needs the 30K major service (car has 22K miles).
- Tip of panel where door's locking button is on driver's side is raised about half an inch, and does not clip or snap into place.
- Those are what I saw in 20 minutes, and I have never owned a Ferrari (had all Porsches), and Earnie is lightyears ahead of me in diagnostics both electrical and mechanical!! So God knows what I have missed!

I will schedule a PPI but now I am wondering if I should get entangled in this and go through what Earnie is going through!

Now I wonder if a PPI will detect ALL the problems of the car, AND, WILL a major service take care of problems at least for a few months so I can enjoy it (which is the reason I want to buy it), OR, is it that the PPI and major service means nothing to potential issues that I will be facing AFTER I pay for them and get them done!!

I am so upset with what Earnie is going through and am now wondering if I should stick with Porsche. It is sad because I really wanted an F-Car now, I love the looks, but I do not want to be dragged into the trenches of mechanical/electrical warfare as a result!!

Any comments from the brothers?

 

Ernie,
Will a PPI detect the issue with the 1/4 light?
Thanks,
Dean

 

It wouldnt be mentioned in the PPI if the 1/4 light is not on, when they do the PPI and the test drive. If the 1/4 light is on, or comes on, then they should mention it in the PPI.

 

348's are great cars!! In North Jersey, it seems like everyone has either a Porsche or Corvette. I wanted to be different. Yep, it just cost me $7200 for a 30K service (it should have been $6K, but the tensioners had to be replaced), but I enjoy driving the heck out of it. Remember, its Italian!!! And Italian are no better: high maintenance!!!! To me, you are not buying a car, you are buying the all of the history and racing heritage that goes along with it. For example, I was in a bagel shop last week. This 12 year old kid saw that I was wearing a Ferrari hat. He asked me if I had a Ferrari and I told him yes. You had to see the kid's face light up!!! We spoke for about 5 minutes about my 348. And he knew more about the F430 than I did. My Corvette would have never gotten that type of reaction.

 

As has been posted, a Porsche will be more reliable, but other than having four wheels there isn't much to compare.

That said, I wouldn't go for a 348 with the issues you mentioned already showing. I've bought and sold old sports cars, and I always get everything straightened out before selling it (and charge a good price for the car). I even had the brakes done on my BMW the week before I sold it because I didn't like the brakepad wear indicator being lit on the dash...

If this is your first Ferrari, and you haven't ruled out a 328 for comfort/performance reasons, I'd nudge you that way. You lose 40 horses, but for the same money I think you'd have your Ferrari and also have fewer issues now and down the road. (Bias disclosure - I looked at the 308-328-348-355 when I was shopping and ended up with a 328. Multiple F-car mechanics pointed me that way.) The owners here with 348 success stories are very knowledgeable and know their cars much better than most of us ever will, IMO.

If you're smitten by the 348, however, be sure to find a good one, as Ernie and others have said. Like the TR, I think the bold exterior has aged very well.

 

Just press the button on the 1/4 ECU. The CEL 1/4 light will flash the code. Look up the code. 7 times out of 10 it's just an O2 sensor that needs to be changed...a $25 part and 30 minutes of your time (you'll just need a $14 22mm O2 sensor socket).

These cars are just like super models...they'll whine and tell you what's wrong if you'll listen, and they'll need lots of tender care if you don't stand up to them from the start...but the more and harder that you drive them, the less that will go wrong and the more that they'll love you.

I think that ernie has a weak spark right at startup. You stick a screwdriver into his disconnected spark plug wire and you get nuttin' when you crank the motor...when you should be seeing a pretty blue spark.

Spray in a little starter fluid and his car starts right up and then runs like she's supposed to.

So ernie's issue is why he has a weak spark until the motor is turning on its own (e.g. battery vs alternator issue).

 

Sh*t hey............
Better you than me ernie. Sounds like a nasty problem you have there. BTW....that is a small battery isnt it? Not saying that it doesnt do the job of turning the car over. Im getting a new Odyssey battery for my 348 soon, that is small externally, but pumps out a respectable 600cca. The battery in my 348 now is a normal sized 450cca. 220cca is quite small, but as long as it turns the car over, should be fine I guess.

 

You would think spraying in starter fluid(into the intake im assuming) that it is a fuel problem?? Not a spark problem? Its weird.........

 

I hear you Pap. Starter fluid usually means no fuel, eh!

But ernie has a really weak spark compared to Plugzit, with 348's parked within feet of each other...but as soon as ernie's car starts, then she's good to go...runs/revs/idles fine.

He's really loading that little, tiny, miniscule battery right at startup. That little battery does crank his 348, I admit, but how much juice is left for spark?!

Anyway, spray in a little starter fluid into ernie's car and then she just starts up pretty as you please. Runs fine from then on.

Kill the motor and then she won't restart until you spray in a whiff of the starter fluid again.

This is all repeatable. Crank. Spray starter fluid. Start the motor, run, enjoy. Repeat. You know that if you can repeat a problem on demand that you can fix it (eventually)!

 

The other thing is that when starting, ernie's car is lighting up both CEL's...what are the codes you ask? I dunno. Ernie!

 

Erine assuming switching your truck battery doesnt start her right up, did you check the ground strap and make sure that its secure? I have seen this once upon a time in my old T/A when I didnt have the ground cable tight on the battery. Basically she had enough juice to crank her but wouldn't give the HEI enough juice to fire.

What about plug wires? What type of spark do you get right at the coil versus at the end of the wires (which is what I assume Plugzit tested).

I am with Pap I instantly thought fuel but it sounds like you guys have that all ruled out with testing Plugzits car right next to it.

Just a through.

 

It *could* be fuel, but man, as soon as you spray starter fluid into the intake, she starts, then runs forever with no problem...though there is a brief stutter right when she first starts/catches.

I'm pretty sure that plugzit was testing spark at the coils as well as at the very end of the spark plug wires...getting very little if anything on ernie's 348...we're thinking just enough to light the starter fluid (bit more volatile, right).

Once the engine catches, she runs fine...would the fuel flow suddenly work properly?? Or why a different spark??

Makes me think of your ground cable issue.

 

Yeah, the PC680, is a baby. I know the one. Im getting the next 2 up, the PC1200. 1000 amps and 600cca. Smaller than a stock battery, but it weighs a few kilo's more. Btu has more amps and cca than the stock 450cca sh*tbox battery I have in there now. They are awesome batteries. I have been using them for years in my other cars, as has my brother. Dont get me wrong, it probably starts your fine. As Plugzit's also. They are top of the line batteries that punch out alot of amps and cca's from a small package. I dont think ive ever come across a problem like yours ever mate, in the car game. I cant think of any ideas at the moment mate.

 

Isn't there a cold start injector on a 348 ? (acts like squirting starter fluid(but gas instead) at startup on 308 CIS)

 

Ernie,

I told you to write down a plan last night but no.....you are still spouting in your head like a pinball in a pinball machine. Think about grappling. If you had another arms like an octipuss you could tieup and submit your opponant quicker. If you lack limbs you need better position before submission to put the limbs you have better into play. Your car problem is the same. You have a tank of water which is the little battery. You have a screwed up stater solinoid hot wire. That take more out of your water tank. You noticed how you carnk better when I remote start vs key start. Now your tank is 3/4 full. You crank and you see no spark because it takes more juice to jump an airgap. You have spark you just can't see it because it is weak. I proved that with the timing light firing display on every wire. This weakness can be from high resisence in wires from key to the secondary plugwires. So now you got 1/4 tank left. If you have some weak wiring from the key to the injector rails now you got zero in your tank. If you got some dirty injectors that supply fuel but does not atomize well at start-up you are negative. So marginal systems all add up.
The 348 has at least a startup program, idle program, running program, wide open throttle program. The fuel deleivery and spark is differnet for each program. This oversimplification that I have presented explains why the car may not start without starter fluid making you think you have a fuel problem but yet runs strong once started. You do not have a fuel problem except you can have weak fuel from dirty injectors which can contribute to your problem or the injector rail is not getting current that is needed to open the injectors under the rules of the starting program (BUT THEY MAY GET THE OPEN JUST FINE UNDER THE RUNNING PROGRAM).
If you don't understand this please just do it anyway:
1- put a new connector on the solinoid (car will not start but you need to do this for the future to start properly)
2- it is possible that you have bilateral problems in your coil and ignitor but I do not think so. Bilat failures are rare. Therefore suspect wiring to the primary coil that means at the fusebox floor panel. pull relay "E" for the key switched stuff and replace with another relay from the same panel or steal one from the front bonnet box. Try to start. No start then....
3- pull fusebox and make sure you have good clean connections of the 12v+ in the little plastic box right in front of the fuse box. Also, do the same for the ground plate connections in the same location. start the car. No start tehn you need to use the wiring diagram and under starting condition back probe the fuse box from behind using the wiring diagram and the wiring color code to make sure you are getting the proper output voltages to the coil for example. You could even have say bad connection to fuel pumps on cranking like 12v to one pump and 7 v to the oterh pump which is a power drain to your water tank which is your little battery. Does this make sence now?

O.K. you want to avoid all this? Spend 70 bucks go to the dealer and have the SD2 plugged in and it will finger the likely place. So if you get say injector 8 on the SD2 you can suspect anything from a nonworking #8 injector to the wiring going all the way back toward the battery. The SD2 will cut your hunt time down. It works better than the obd1 CEL codes and has more codes like the difference between a full websters dictionary and the small pocket abridged addition. So there is your plan a) hunt by system or b) SD2 save some time or....c) Erine jump all over the place and pray!
I think Ernie is going to punch me in the nose!

 

No, there isnt mate.