It's Hard to find a Good Vintage Ferrari

When you actually own and drive vintage Ferraris many of the limitations/shortcomings that you read about concerning certain models won't effect you in real world driving and ownership. Don't limit your car search because of a concern over "only a 4 speed with overdrive". How many times will you really miss that 5th gear? I instead enjoy the quirkiness of the set up when I do shift into overdrive. A 5 speed might be better but the 4 speed/overdrive is also on Series 1 500 Superfast and I would not rule out one of these cars because of this "shortcoming". Also, when reading about the 275 GTS, a knock on the car is the unballanced drive shaft. I have never noticed a problem with mine when driving and one shouldn't cross this car off the purchasing list because of it.

My advise is don't narrow your search too much based on shortcomings you read/hear about but instead focus more on overall condition, ownership history, maintenance records and picking a car you enjoy seeing when you open your garage door. When you land a nice condition car you will NEVER notice that at 95 MPH you might consider going into overdrive or just listening to the revs get louder.

Good luck.

 

Agree.

I loved the old Series I, but when it came time to go 330-hunting again I wanted at least an Interim 4HL or a Series II...something a little more "modern". I turned down a sure-thing good deal on a very, very nice Series I.

If I ever do move back into the Vintage 12 area, it won't be another Series I 330, probably not a 330 at all...more like a GTC/4.

 

Remember how many of what you seek exist and of that what are ever likely to see the market. Ferrari made 474 Series II 330GTs of which about 250 are likely to exist, IN THE WORLD, the 365GTC4 production was 500 of which at best 400 survive IN THE WORLD. The number of survivor Daytonas and Dinos is at or more than 10X. Of those survivors well over 1/2 are in the hands of guys who will not sell them period. The other 125/200 about 1/2 are not in the US so you are down to 60+ 330s and 100+ C4s that from time to time come on the US market. A safe assumption is 1/2 of each of those are not "stories" cars they are "tome" cars (be very afraid), and are too often sold and resold at very short interval. So now you are down to 30 possible 330s and 50 C4s worth looking at even if you knew where they were. So in short, it takes patience and you need to approach individual owners at every venue, most guys know the other owners (it is a really small community) and if someone is thinking about selling the other guys often know. M

 

I think there are a lot of 330's relative to other 50/60's Ferraris for sale. Three months and seeing six cars is just about long enough to figure out what it is you are looking for, (and what it is you are not). You're experienced, people sell cars for a reason and it's usually not that they're in perfect shape. As such, finding a good car takes a while. Maybe faced with $25,000 for an engine rebuild, $15,000 for an interior, $20,000 for complete repaint or many thousands for a clutch or brakes etc., is when people decide to move on. Best, Yale

 

I think that Kare's comment was appropriate. (And pretty funny; you're the best, Kare.)

Anyone is entitled to do anything he wants to. But making blanket "fact" statements about Series I cars such as "The transmissions are weak" and "They are more prone to rust" pretty much requires a response like Kare's. Series II cars aren't any different. There's more difference due to age, maintenance, repair or current condition on those two points.

Mr. Johnson, you are right on the desirability of single headlamps, though. But you miss some other desirable features of the Series II cars. The power steering is really a nice feature, and is really well done. The top-hinged pedals are nicer (to me) than floor-hinged pedals. And it's more likely that a later car will have air conditioning.

I'd suggest you to go for it. I liked the Series II 330 enough to buy one. And, as Michael Bayer correctly point out, with around 250 surviving examples, I'd be hard pressed to part with it. Take your time and find the right one. You might have to pay more than you expect; a glance at the back of the Ferrari Market Letter show a trend that I think is still continuing. You'd be better off paying a bit more now and getting a car than not having a car and watching prices continue to climb. I wish you the best of luck finding your car!

Matt

 

Wise man. More people need to think about the "why" of owning an old banger before they dive into the deep end of the pool. That is, why do you want a vintage car? To show, go, or fiddle diddle around with? If you answer is to "go," you may be better off with a newer car.

Dale

 

GSJohnson,

Early Series 2 cars have metal floors - guess how I know...

Also, later Series 2 cars have 2 mount engines vs. the early Series 2 cars and Series 1 cars which have 4 mount engines.

Regards,

Art S.

 

GS - as I indicated in my PM, I will be home in a couple of weeks and will give you a call about viewing my C4 (not for sale.......we can go for a drive). Just a couple of comments:
I owned a 330 2+2 before the C4. They have totally different personalities so be sure to drive both before making a decision.
Good advice from fellow Fchatters - I bought my C4 5 years ago for 40K - ran but needed suspension, clutch, carb, interior work etc. Well 5 years and $50K later, it is beautiful, reliable, a kick in the ass to drive, and still in need of a few items to finish it out. Point is, it is easy to drop a huge amount into these cars. With 20/20 hindsight, I would have preferred to buy a better car from the start. My car isn't viewed as an investment....... just from what I have learned, go for the best example you can. I believe $125K will get you a top notch example.
Call you in a couple of weeks.
Regards
Mike

 

Having been there with a Vintage Ferrari ('64 330 Series I), and presently owning a Classic-era one ('83
308 GTS), some truths are becoming self-evident: The 308 is an all-round easier car to own and live with, and equally enjoyable to drive, though these two models have quite different "personalities".

Whether I want to jump back into Vintage ownership when insurability permits it (October 2009), and once again pay the price of admission and ongoing ownership costs, is an open question. Assuming no intervening financial windfall, getting back in would cost me the 308, which I'm now quite attached to, plus another check in the high five figures...and that's just the beginning.

Worth it? Believe it or not, the old conservative-silver 4-headlighter attracted much more ongoing attention than the bright red 308 does...I think many people take the 308 for a Corvette, where the 330 was outstandingly unique. There's also this nagging feeling of being Out Of The V12 Club and wanting to get back in. But these are ego-needs issues, not practical ownership or pure enjoyment ones.

I guess we'll see when October 2009 comes around.

Zanny1 is dead-on: buy the best car you can, no matter what model.

My 330 experience was similar to his C/4 one-- a basically solid car with lots of reconditioning needs. I ended up spending again the $32K paid for it, but also got hundreds of hours of hands-on wrenching experience and a great sense of accomplishment.

The 308 was approached differently...I bought the best car available at the particular time, and then didn't hesitate to pay the pros what was needed to sort it out to the last detail. The hands-on 330 experience was fine, but another goround...no thanks for now.

 

C4 vs 330 Series II.

Drive them both - there is no real comparison in desirability between them. It all depends.
The 330 GT is a "slightly disguised long distance (think LeMans) racer" (not my phrase: don't want to be charged with plagerism) - noisy, rides rough, handles well, is reliable (once everthing is working). It is probably a bit easier to work on if you are into that.
The C4 I was lucky to drive is clearly designed as a high performance road car - much smoother, civilized, and sophisticated. The difference in performance may slightly favor the 330 due to the power/weight ratio, but not enough to notice.
I would take either or both.

Cheers
Warren

 

The design for structural anti corrosion really took of in the 80's. This means up till then about any car will just rot away if driven in wet/salt and not properly cleaned/dried/protected. I would be surpriced if minor changes in floor structure would really make much difference in how these cars have corroded over the years.

I'm a bit surpriced of the claim of tendency for cold grinding too. For all I know these gear boxes are pretty good designs and very few cars are driven really hard these days. I would assume that exsessive bearing wear could almost always be traced back to some other problem (lubrication, errors in assembly or driving habits). Best wishes, Kare

 

Off course!!! I just would not worry about about small differences when talking about a series of very carefully designed cars that are very reliable by reputation! Best wishes, Kare

 

Okay, I'll accept this definition of a "bad vintage Ferrari." Definitely sounds like a #4 car that the owner wants to sell for a #2 price.

You might want to take Coach's advise and look for a C/4.

Dale

 

$120K asking for a presentable, up-and-roadworthy GTC isn't bad at all right now.

I'd walk if the owner is totally unwilling to allow a PPI; otherwise it sounds worth a closer look, especially if he's amenable to a reasonable counter.

The stuff you've described is...well, normal for a driver.

 

Great cars...keep us posted.

 

GS Johnson,

Did you drive the 330? If so, how did it feel? If not, why not?

Also, isnt there a clean looking, light blue and tan 330 GT being advertized at a CA dealership for $120K or $125K? Have you seen it? What were it's issues?



Scott,

The car was described as a '67 330 GT, not a GTC.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Art...a "senior moment" on my part, for sure.

Yes, at $120K, a 330 2+2 as described by gsjohnson is way overpriced.