Jackie Stewart doesn't think MS is one of the greats?

+1. You guys be careful out there!

 

Ayrton Senna. There are some interesting moments in the Senna movie when Stewart interviews or questions Senna about his driving. Go see the movie!

KevFla

 

Prewar-Nuvolari. Pure Genius.

Postwar-Clark. Won or the car broke.

Richard Petty said he never thought about crashing or dieing during a race as it would make him slow. Keep it simple and pure....

 

1) Senna
2) Clark
3) Fangio
4) Schumacher

 

tony...as much as it pains me, i would put clark ahead of senna. then you would likewise have my top 4...stewart ties w/ schumacher

clark was deadly fast in a day when it was deadly to be as fast as he!

senna remains my hero however.

 

Peter with those four really it is so tough to pick, but I have to say Clark was just so great. Their is a great book from Italy that compares Clark and Senna I bought 15 years ago.

 

When comparing across eras there are too many uncommonalities to make a valid ranking.
It makes for good discussion but some of the blanket assertions being made amaze me.

 

+1 it just cannot be done.

 

And remember that the best f1 driver is not necessarily the same thing as the best driver ever to pilot an F1 car.

 

I disagree. I think it can be done. when you look at drivers - the best ones they all share similar traits... from Nouvalari to Alonso... they are:

self centered
ruthless ( in their own way)
mechanically sympathetic - take care of the car & tires
able to get people behind them to work in a common direction
courage - or lack of fear
control their emotion
concentration - have ability to shut out the world and focus for long periods of time
physically fit for their respective periods of time....
ability to make quick decisions - split second reaction times
always got the right car at the right time

So I think we are talking about the same sort of people who are the greats, now you just evaluate the ones who have the most demonstrable traits... and for me its Jackie Stewart.

 

True enuff.

 

Well I see your point, however the drivers of yesteryears all had different traits to deal with depending on what the current rules ect were at the time, for example, a dare devil racer may have thought twice about a overtaking move knowing that thier car could explode on fire.

So some drivers with little regard for there lives could be considered a better driver, where as one that thought twice and lived to tell the tale, could be considered a lesser driver.

 

Even if so it's impossible to make quantifiable rankings on those criteria across time.
For instance: Does the shorter schedule of the fifties weigh heavier than the longer races they ran? How much slower would today's drivers be if they faced the same mortal consequences as earlier piloti?
Impossible to say for sure so it devolves to opinion not fact.

 

+1

Opinions are as close as we can get. Statistics tell us much, including BS in a lot of cases!

However, I'm a little surprised we've almost got something of a consensus on the "top 4", in no particular order - I reckon that's pretty impressive given the wide range of opinions here and the many hundreds of jockeys over the years.

Cheers,
Ian

 

You mean like Mike Hawthorn, had to stop wearing a tie and restort to bow tie, it kept blowing in his face.

He had always raced in his everyday clothes, usually a sports jacket and a tie, which at speed tended to flap in his face. For his single-seater debut Mike bought white overalls and wore the bow tie that became his trademark.

 

If Rosemeyer (and any number of other drivers) racied modern machines on modern circuits his career would have been much longer. Who is to say how many races he'd have won. How many records set?

Good talk and fun speculation but nothing you should take too seriously.

 

Not that surprising when you realize that most here(but not all) here get their information and opinions from a limited number of sources.

Personally I'd include Rudi Caracciola and am surprised that Mario hasn't even been mentioned.

 

In reverse, I do think that our drivers of today would do the same as Rosemeyer, Fangio etc. if they lived in that time. They'd just accept the risk, like the guys back then did.

I do not follow the theory of many that the drivers of the 30s or 40s were so much better than the drivers today. Different times, different circumstances.

 

+1

I just watched that "Grand Prix Killer Years" documentary and there's no way you can compare across eras. The cars are so different you just can't tell. It's both ways also -- the best driver of today (high downforce) might suck compared to the best of previous eras.

If you don't think so look at how modern day greats try to cross over and don't do so well ... JPM excepted but of course there are going to be SOME guys that are great across the board.

 

Like their cars today's drivers have a very specialized physiology. I wouldn't call them sprinters but they are more greyhound than rotweiler.
I don't see any of today's crop man handling a prewar behemoth over unimproved roads for four or more hours.
I'm not arguing for or against the classic era drivers just pointing out that the sport is so changed comparisons are impossible.

 

It seems to me that F1 is becoming similar to NASCAR. With all the "defensive" driving going on, it's become a parade. Blocking isn't racing, it's a parade.

Basketball used to be a sport of finesse not bumping and assault.

I use this as it's coming into all types of competition.

Years ago, there were "gentlemen" racing cars, not thugs.

The 1 st rule was you don't block a faster car behind you.
You don't "close the door" on anyone passing you.

If they have 1 wheel in front of you, you relinquish the position.

Yes, passing IS racing, not following someone in front of you for 68 laps...



OP~ Stewart knows his stuff. He's hard to keep up with, when the pace is "brisk."

 

Welcome to the high pants/ get off my lawn brigade
BTW I agree.

 

Jackie Stewart is the prototype modern F1 driver.He also never ran someone off the track like Schumacher or Senna.That might be part of it.