Japanese Brands #1 in Quality AGAIN | FerrariChat

Japanese Brands #1 in Quality AGAIN

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by REMIX, Mar 1, 2007.

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  1. REMIX

    REMIX Two Time F1 World Champ

    For car reliability, looking East is still best
    Japanese carmakers dominate Consumer Reports reliability survey
    Image: Accords
    The Honda Accord continued its run as one of Consumer Reports’ most-reliable car picks in 2007.
    View related photos
    David Zalubowski / AP file

    Japanese vehicle brands continue to rule the roost when it comes to car reliability, according to the latest annual survey from Consumer Reports.

    Toyota and Honda’s brands scored top marks overall in the magazine’s “2007 Annual Car Reliability Survey,” which was compiled from survey responses from over 1.3 million magazine subscribers. The survey results will appear in the April issue of Consumer Reports magazine, which goes on sale March 6.

    Toyota, Honda, Scion, Acura and Lexus took the top five places, in order, in the Consumer Reports list of the 36 most reliable car brands for 2007. Ford’s Mercury brand was the highest-placed U.S. nameplate, ranking 10th, while General Motors’ best-ranking brand was GMC, which came in at 14th on the list. Chrysler highest ranking was for its Dodge brand, which was placed 22nd on the list.

    What’s more, for the second time in the 10-year history of the annual list, all of the magazine’s top car picks were Japanese brands. In addition, 55 of the 59 used car models recommended by the magazine were Japanese, again dominated by Toyota and Honda.

    The snub by the closely watched consumer publication comes at a time of crisis for the Detroit-based automakers — GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler AG’s Chrysler Group. All three U.S. automakers are shedding jobs and closing plants in an attempt to cope with a devastating loss of market share.

    “Japanese models are still the most reliable — Toyota and Honda in particular,” said Rik Paul, automotive editor for Consumer Reports. “For years, their vehicles have consistently been the least problematic and the best in terms of reliability for years.”


    NEWLY RECOMMENDED FOR 2007
    Cars with improved reliability:
    — Audi A6
    — Audi S4
    — Chevrolet Malibu
    — Dodge Durango
    — Ford Freestyle
    — Hyundai Tucson
    — Kia Sorento
    — Mazda6

    Source: Consumer Reports

    On average, the biggest increase in reported problems for cars comes when they are between 5 and 6 years old, which is when many owners think about selling their car. This is also the point where Toyota and Honda’s models excel in terms of reliability Paul said. The average 10-year-old Toyota or Honda has the same, or fewer, problems than a 4 or 5-year-old car from any of the U.S. automakers, or Volkswagen, he said.

    “What we see is if a car starts out with problems in the first couple of years it will tend to stay problematic throughout its lifetime,” Paul said. “This is where Toyota and Honda really shine — they start out well and maintain their reliability, even through 10 years of use, and so a 9-year-old Lexus can have fewer problems than a 2006 Mercedes.”

    When it comes to comparing new cars by nationality, one trend stood out: European automakers continue to lag Asian and North American manufacturers when it comes to reliability.

    The big Japanese and the South Korean automakers have, on average, only 11 problems per 100 vehicles, the magazine said. U.S. automakers follow with 16 problems per 100, while European manufacturers have 19 problems per 100 cars.

    NOT RECOMMENDED
    Cars with declining reliability:
    — BMW X3
    — Cadillac STS
    — Dodge Magnum
    — Ford Mustang (V8)
    — Mazda RX-8
    — Volvo S40

    Source: Consumer Reports
    In fact, European automakers have consistently fared poorly in recent years in Consumer Reports’ reliability surveys. Mercedes-Benz, in particular, has seen its reliability ranking decline sharply — this year, the German luxury brand placed last in the reliability list of 36 automobile brands, its reliability level 123 percent below the average for the whole industry, said Paul.

    “We have seen lows in recent years for European carmakers, but this was a particularly bad year for Mercedes-Benz — it surprised a lot of people,” said Paul.

    Consumer Reports placed the Mercedes-Benz CLS, M-Class and R-Class on its “Not Recommended” list because of declining reliability. A third of survey respondents who owned the 2001 Mercedes-Benz C-Class V6 owners “griped about serious electrical problems,” the magazine report said.

    Hyundai, by contrast, entered the top ten most reliable car brand list for the first time in 2007, rising to number seven. The ascent of the South Korean automaker is a good example of how an automaker can improve reliability, said Rick Paul.

    “Hyundai was at the bottom of the list when it came to reliability five or six years ago, but now they’re number seven in a list of 36, so they’ve really been able to improve their reliability,” Paul said. “The fact that Hyundai can turn things around in just a few years proves that it can be done, and so despite Mercedes’ problems and everything we read about the reliability problems of the Big Three U.S. automakers, Hyundai is a good example of what can be achieved.”

    Consumer Reports also releases its “Top Picks List for 2007” in its April issue, identifying the cars that it recommends to consumers because they have met its stringent requirements in test categories such as handling, braking, acceleration, fuel economy and comfort.

    Top picks must also have a proven average or higher reliability, based on the Consumer Reports survey responses, and also perform adequately in government or insurance crash testing.

    Consumer Reports named five new models to its 2007 Top Picks list — the Toyota RAV4, the Infiniti G35, Toyota Sienna, the Mazda MX-5 Miata and the new Honda Fit. The Toyota Prius remains the Top Pick in the “green car” category for the fourth year in a row, having demonstrated an excellent 44 miles per gallon overall fuel economy, showing the best fuel economy of any five passenger vehicle, Consumer Reports said.

    2007 marks the second time since 1997, when the list was first introduced, that all the vehicles on Consumer Reports’ “Top Picks” list are Japanese nameplates. Historically, the Consumer Reports list is blend of Japanese, European and domestic models.

    But Paul cautioned against what he called “the Japanese myth.” Few automakers score well in both Consumer Reports testing and readers’ responses to reliability surveys, the magazine found.

    Toyota scores highly when it comes to reliability, but in the last year Consumer Reports tested Toyota models — the Yaris and the FJ Cruiser — that rated low in certain categories, Paul said. As a result, Toyota’s average test score was only ninth out of 17 carmakers.

    The same is true for European automakers, he added.

    Volkswagen, for example, earned the highest test score in Consumer Reports testing, but only an average rating for reliability. And Mercedes-Benz’s had the fourth highest average test score out of 17 automakers tested, but was at the bottom of the table when it comes to reliability he said.

    The sole automaker that scored consistently in all categories was Honda, coming second in Consumer Reports tests and tying first with Toyota and Subaru for best average reliability rating. Honda had the highest average test score and was the only manufacturer other than Subaru to have its entire vehicle line-up endorsed by Consumer Reports.

    Consumer Reports is published by the nonprofit Consumers Union. The magazine anonymously buys test cars from dealers and spent $2.8 million last year on vehicles. It also accepts no paid advertising.
    Reuters contributed to this report.
     
  2. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    25,999
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Ryan Alexander
    Go Audi!

    How did Porsche fare this year after their good ranking last year? Oh this was CR not JD Power.
     
  3. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    DGS
    One thing you figure out about "owner surveys" when you own a special edition Toyota is that most Corolla drivers aren't very demanding. If the engine starts and the car can drag itself into gridlock, they're happy.

    When the dealer applied the same service standards to my homologation AllTrac, the results were undrivable (to me). Even after two tries, the dealer's alignment with a Hunter machine wasn't as good as I managed at home with a tape measure, a pumb bob, and a protractor.

    Sportscar owners tend to get upset when the grip isn't spot on, or the car is off about 5 BHP, but the average "applicance" driver can't even tell when his tires are half flat.

    I was seriously considering a Mondial 8 as a "winter rat", simply because the standards are that much higher at a Ferrari shop than at the average Toyota service department.

    That's also why I can't get the EVO serviced at just any Mitsu dealer.

    So while a Porsche or BMW driver might consider it a "failure" if the car has poor throttle response, a Camry driver might not even notice.
     
  4. TopCloser

    TopCloser Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2006
    309
    The gigantic flaw with quality assessments performed through owner surveys is a near-uniform subjective approach taken by owners.

    Case in point: The Geo Metro and Toyota Corolla are nearly identical, save for minor styling cues. Engine, transmission, suspension, chassis...everything is the same. Corollas, however, always scored higher than Metros by their owners, due primarily to subjective factors biasing the survey taker.

    That Toyota is "#1 in Quality" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Person A buys a Toyota because they've been told it's the best. Person B buys a Metro because it's cheap. They are both the same car, but the little gripe the Toyota owner find is forgotten, because the rest of the car is "rock solid", whereas the Geo owner purchased the car knowing it was an "economy" model marketed by a US manufacturer, as as such, the minor gripe is "proof positive" that the car is, indeed, poorly manufactured, and the minor gripe predicts, in the eyes of Geo owners, problems that have yet to arise. Toyota gripes go unreported, and Geo gripes are touted as further proof that US companies can't build cars.

    Even more proof of this is the note in the article refering to Mercury being the highest quality car manufactured in America. Mercury does not produce a single "stand alone" car that neither Ford nor Lincoln produces. Mercury may use slighter better components for things such as dash panels or seating upholstery, but these upgrade fit and finish, not functionality. Just because a Mercury Grand Marquis uses a more dense plastic for its dash board does not mean that it functions any better than the materially-inferior Crown Victoria dash. However, the pool of people choosing a Mercury over a Ford have different subjective factors that determine if the car they bought is "quality" or not. Virtually no objective factors are taken into account here.

    Furthermore, these survey companies need to group together "manufacturers." An Acura is a Honda, regardless of how hard R&T and Motor Trend try to tell me it isn't. A Lexus (or Scion) is a Toyota, regardless of how far Lexus (or Scion) wants to distance themselves from Toyota's image. They are built by the same people, the same management, and the same parts bin.

    Finally, advertising money can do a lot to sway a publisher's particular skew on a product. Consumer Reports is less prone to factors that can artificially bias their reports, but don't believe for a second that their survey questions aren't crafted without (a probably unconscious) bias.
     
  5. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
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    Los Angeles, CA
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    Charles W
    Are you talking about a Toyota AllTrac Turbo (Celica)? :) If so I want to know more about your experience with it. PM me or we can start another thread.
     
  6. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
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    bo
    American auto manufacturers are screwed...

    Article in the Tribune yesterday stated that GM is offering any employee willing to quit 100,000$ bonuses with 6 months of prepaid medical insurance. The unions are considering it as a "sacrifice" in contract negotiations...

    Now keep in mind, that the employees might still be entitled to their retirement packages...

    Lets see, any other industry offering its grunts 3x/annual salary to quit their jobs?

    If someone offered me 3x my annual salary to quit, I wouldn't consider it my "sacrifice" to a cause. I would sign before they reconsidered... The auto industry is PAYING people to bail from a sinking ship, yet for the unions its still not good enough...

    Hold onto your GM cars, guys. One day they will be like the Packards of their day. Your kids will look at them and wonder what the hell a GM "was."
     
  7. FerrariF50lover

    FerrariF50lover Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    2,383
    Ohio
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    Nate
    GM is just going threw a rough time like many. I think they can pull out of it.
     
  8. TopCloser

    TopCloser Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2006
    309

    Ahhhh.......no.

    People said the same thing about Hyundai/Kia 10 years ago. As stupid as you think auto execs are, they won't let probably the largest company in the history of the world just evaporate into nothing.
     
  9. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    James K. Woods
    This rice "quality" may come at a price. I just heard an Acura diatribe from one of our product managers on a window lift motor - not so much from the face that it burned out (passenger side, no less), but from the fact that the new part cost three hundred and eighty five dollars. It is just an ordinary 4-door Acura.

    That would make me wonder what a Ferrari 550 window lift costs.
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,960
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    GM seems to be on the upturn as far as car design and quality. I think they will pull through, but the days of them being the worlds largest auto builder are over..I'm thinking of buying stock now that it is in "junk statuts"
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,705
    Do these Consumers Surveys really influence you? Because they really don't influence me one bit, and I couldn't care less what they say.

    For years, I have heard that Japanese cars are more reliable, better built, better value for money, etc...bla, bla, bla. I wouldn't go near one, I wouldn't step in one Japanese dealership showroom; these cars don't do anything for me. Period.

    I really think some of these surveys end up being bias, and the chap who mentions that Corolla owners don't report faults because they hardly know how the car run as opposed to a Porsche/BMW owner critical of the way his car runs, handles, stop has a good point.

    I prefer a Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Volvo, SAAB or Audi, to all the Accura, Lexus, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, you can throw me. I don't like these cars, and don't want them!
     

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