Jim- Lusso is not a $250K car yet!!

We've gone over this again and again. It is probably not fair to use the price including commissions... because the seller pays commissions too. If it's 10% on both sides of a deal, then it's true that a $500k hammer price cost the buyer $550k, but it is also true that the seller only got $450k.

The price at which something sells is the point where the buyer and seller meet, and it's just as true that the above mentioned car is available for $450k as it is that people are willing to pay $550k. The only fair price to use is the hammer price.

 

Craig Jackson - is that you?

 

I just returned from Scottsdale - for me it seemed that top cars are still bringing big bucks, but the biggest surprise was that cars in the $50K to $200K range were still strong sellers. I certainly did leave with the sense that there were bargains galore. Lussos at $550 hammer still represents a 150% move since 2003, so I wouldn't call that a "great deal". Not to mention a 288 GTO at $550K hammer, or an Enzo at $1.15M hammer.

FYI to the auction newbies - "Auction Estimates" are nothing more than marketing tools, and do not represent anything other than the auction company's best efforts to separate you from as much of your money as possible. I thought that Gooding was smart to make the "low estimates" much higher than the reserve, in order to facilitate the deal - this little trick certainly helped his sell-through numbers.

 

First some think the 2MM+ Monterey RM 4 Cam is a Fluke. Now you're saying the 2MM+ May RM 4 Cam is also a fluke?

1967 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 $2,042,700 Sold (RM May)


That one I happen to know. Sal and I lent a hand when it failed to proceed at Villa d'Este. John is a very nice guy and does very nice work but what exactly makes that car a fluke? Does it have some Competition History or details that I'm not taking into account?

The math I get is the 4 Cam that sold at RM on Friday sold for 1.2MM LESS than the sale in May. Remember Geno already dismissed the RM Monterey 4 Cam Sale as a fluke. Please explain why John's car sale at May RM was yet another Fluke that should be dismissed.

The Swatters Lusso is a Fluke? Mike's Lusso was a Fluke? How about the other Lusso that sold for 1.17MM at RM in May. That one a Fluke as well? The math I get is the RM Friday GTL sold for 557K less than the lower sale GTL at RM in May.

The percentage drop over 9 months from those examples is a bit more than 20-30%. I get -50% for the GTL and -60% for the 4 Cam. Please feel free to correct me.

 

W/a new car, is the sale price what the mfg realizes, or the dealer?

 

OK, OK, the world is coming to an end, but before it does I am looking to buy a nice low-mileage unmolested F40 for $180k.

 

Reverend George Foreman here rarely drives his.....LOL!

And Mattress Mac just took his static display out of Gallery Furniture, and sent it for a tune up!
It hadn't moved in years...

Anything to help........both are bone stock, North American as far as I know.....

 

From what I know, George junior has taken on exercising duties of the George Foreman Ferrari F40, and Big George has absolutely no need to sell anything, especially not for $180k!! Can you imagine if I presented him with a check for $180k (which I have already written, upon the advice of another poster, by the way) and he had a flashback to that night in Kingston in 1973?? :-0

 

Maybe throw it into the offering plate, in a key swap....

 

Getting serious for a moment (which I find hard to do on these threads), I have no problem if someone points out top-of-the-tree values for objects that are THE SAME.

The problem is that Jim frequently does this with objects that are NOT THE SAME. A standard street Lusso is NOT THE SAME as a Competizione first-of-a-series Lusso, and the Competizione Lusso should never have been brought into the discussion. A Steve Mc Queen icon-of-the-last-century Lusso is NOT THE SAME as another similarly restored Lusso, and that car should never be brought into the discussion.

When someone consistently uses examples that are NOT THE SAME to bolster their spin or arguments that the market has fallen MORE than it really has, thats not fair.

Look, the market has fallen! There, I said it. But lets be accurate in our representation of by how much...

 

You playing the Astaire role in a remake of "On The Beach"?

 

Does this all mean that a GM Futureliner bus is NOT worth $2 million anymore??? Oh the humanity.........

 

Hey Thoughts With You on Your Friend. Hope they burn that MF.

Best

 

that would be 0492M

sorry, couldn't help myself

 

Thanks. I've been curious about that car for a long time.

 

Next August should be a good indicator.

I don't think the claim of a 30% drop extends to all makes and models, but maybe the usual stuff you can find on kbb.com. The top cars are far too distinct to pigeonhole. Classic Ferraris should be dealt with on an individual basis anyhow, especially considering how varied specification and history can be.

 

Yes.

 

People have a very interesting way of comparing their investments to their all time high value. Yes 275GTB4Cs were $1.2 a year ago and are now worth $900K BUT THEY WERE $400K just a few years ago. Yes, Daytonas have fallen from $400K to $300K but they were $150K for 5+ years. Don't compare your house to what it was worth in 2005 (unless you bought it them), don't compare your stock portfolio to October 2007 values and don't compare your your Ferrari value to the all time peak. All of these will do fine over reasonable measurement periods.....

 

For any car, it's where supply meets demand. The manufacturer sells the cars to the dealer below market price, and at a discount below MSRP (where MSRP isn't market price, usually). That situation does not exist with an auction, so IMO it's not a valid comparison.

 

Me Too.

Best

 

Maybe more like a used car lot then?