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Just played F355 Challenge...

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by Admiral Thrawn, Oct 1, 2004.

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  1. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    #1 Admiral Thrawn, Oct 1, 2004
    I went to see Aliens Vs Predator last night. Afterwards, some friends of mine wanted to blow money on the arcade machines. "On brother.." I though, until spotting F355 Challenge. "Hello!"

    The first thing that struck me were the sound effects; especially the engine. Perfect reproduction of the high-pitched scream 355s make. The machine itself was obviously failry recent, and had 3 screens, angled around you to create more immersion. Graphics were so-so; not as good as my PC, but close to that of the PS2. Alot of jaggies made it quite difficult to see where you were driving at times.

    I decided I was going to drive using the sequential paddles, and with all driver aids off. As I'm familiar with the circuits, Monza and Suzuka were my tracks of choice.

    Tried Monza first (which happened to have the old layout with 2 chicanes at the end of the start straight). Okay, here we go! I accelerated along the straight, shifting at 8500rpm, enjoying the sound, 200m sign flies by, 150m sign flies by, and I start braking for the first chicage. Hmm... Press the brakes a little harder... "Oh sh*t, I'm not stopping!" Press the brakes harder *wheels lock* "oh no!!" I frantically tried to downshift with the paddles, but the system refused because the revs were too high. I went barreling through the chicane and crashed into the tyre barriers placed (annoyingly, unlike in real-life) right by the sides of the track.

    Hmm, embarrassing moment indeed.

    I continued on around the Curva Grande, then began braking for the Variante della Roggia just before passing under the bridge. 5th...4th...3th... "Oh no, not again!" *crunch* I went sailing off into the gravel trap just as I got down to 2nd gear. "GRRR! What is going on here?"

    Got back on the track, feeling rather sheepish, only to understeer right off the track at the second Lesmo, despite taking it in 3rd and crossing over the apex.

    I continued on for another 1.5 laps, braking from then on about 200m out, before the time ran out.

    At this stage, I was feeling rather frustrated. Inserted another $2 and decided to give Suzuka a shot.

    Now, I took it relatively slow and easy for most of the lap, despite going off the track at high speed into the gravel at turn 9 after the Degner Curve. "Argh!" Another wheels-locked unable to downshift moment, despite my vain efforts to pump the brakes and regain control.

    Continued on my way, accelerated through the Spoon Curve and onto the straight, passing under the Crossover. 130R approacheth! Before any steering input, I had reached around 270kmph or so. Now 130R can be taken flat in F1 at just under 300kmph, and almost flat in most other open-wheel catagories, albeit at a slower speed.
    I decided to start applying a little brakes, downshifted to 5th and begun turning left into the corner...

    "Oh fabulous!"

    The car understeered right off the track, flew fleetingly across the gravel before smashing into the barrier in excess of 220kmph.

    Soon after which the time ran out, and I was left with quite alot to think about.

    A few points:

    I have never raced a sports car around a track before. Only open-wheelers, including those that use signficant downforce.

    I was amazed by simply how long the braking distances were compared with what I'm used to. Normally I can brake from 200kmph for a hairpin in under 100m when in a 250cc twin-engine International Formula E Superkart, using a 6 speed gearbox, 4 wheel disc brakes and aero devices. The 355 Challenge required double that, sometimes more.

    As a result of this slower deceleration, it took much much longer for me to be able to downshift in the 355; something I'm not used to. Repeatedly I was pressing the left paddle only for nothing to happen for a good 1.5 - 2 seconds. If you listen to the sound of the car or watch F1 drivers from an onboard camera, often they can barely downshift in time for the next turn! Totally different experience.

    All I can say is that I'm glad my first on track experience of a sports car wasn't in real life, because I'd probably have put it in the runoff, much to the displeasure of the owner!

    I recall something exactly like this happening to one of the F1 drivers last year. Antonio Pizzonia was test driving a Jaguar road car, only to completely underestimate the braking distance required, understeered off the track, slammed into the tyre barrier, and rolled the car end over end. The journalist sitting next to him could see they were going to have an off track moment before he even did, with the remark "no way, we're off!". Pizzonia's response was "oh f*ck!", he reached for the gearstick, but it was already too late.

    :)
     
  2. VROOM!!!

    VROOM!!! Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2004
    2,495
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Armen
    #2 VROOM!!!, Oct 1, 2004
    I don't like that game to much. But i allways spend like 10 bucks on it...
     
  3. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2001
    26,445
    Panther City, Texas
    Full Name:
    WJHMH
    #3 WJHMH, Oct 1, 2004
    It's getting difficult to find a copy of it on EBAY, every time I bid on the PS2 version, someone outbids me. I've seen some copied used sell as much as $25 w/o shipping fees. A game like this, I don't want to pay more than $10. It's not the best driving game out there, I just want to add it for my collection.
     
  4. triXXXter

    triXXXter Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
    652
    Ft. Worth TX
    Full Name:
    Steven G. Ogden
    #4 triXXXter, Oct 1, 2004
    I will get a timed game card and sit at that game forever. It is very hard, especially with the no help you're screwed mode. But accept for the way too loose paddles, I enjoy this game. Unfortunately I'm guessing it's not really realistic.

    But fun to be in a digital 355 then no 355 at all. :)

    Steven
     
  5. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,958
    MO
    Full Name:
    Omar
    #5 Auraraptor, Oct 1, 2004
    Do you think the pedal sponginess was a design flaw or one from age (ie lots of users using the machine)
     
  6. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    #6 Admiral Thrawn, Oct 2, 2004
    Hmm, hard to say, as I've never seen a brand new machine. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it were because of constant use (or abuse).
     
  7. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,604
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    #7 tifosi12, Oct 2, 2004
    I read an article about the Japanese team that wrote the game. Or simulation rather. They got direct help from Fiorano to make it as realistic as possible. Also they even went on a track driving real 355 to get a sense of it.

    So aside from wear and tear of the arcade machine, what you see is what you should get in the real car.

    One thing that is particularly cool is the correct viewing angle out the window: Most simulators are based on one screen and hence give you a wide angle view to give you some peripheral vision. But that creates distortion and 3D perspective is not correct anymore. Not so in this sim where the 3 monitors show the angle of human eyes. Obviously a trait that gets lost on the home version of the game.

    When it came out I even built a simulator at home for it. But soon I got totally annoyed by the arcade character of the sim: You had to earn points to get to other tracks (Fiorano!) and couldn't really save setups etc. Very annoying when you come from a PC background where you basically have control over the simulator.
     
  8. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    #8 Gilles27, Oct 2, 2004
    My friends and I used to go play it now and then after work when the place nearby had 4 linked up together. It's definitely fun...I tried using the stick shift once, which turned into a bit of a disaster.
     
  9. pipecrash

    pipecrash Karting

    Jan 30, 2004
    121
    Los Altos, CA
    Full Name:
    Peter A.
    #9 pipecrash, Oct 2, 2004
    The playstation2 and Dreamcast versions of F355 are perfect ports and the home versions do let one save the setup of camber toe etc... the only thing missing for the home versions is the nice 6 spd manual in the sit down arcade. I prefer the 6spd as my lap times are about 2 sec faster than the paddle shift.

    The F355 arcade game I play at my local Dave and Busters seems to have taken some abuse especially on the paddle shifters and the 6spd shift but the pedals still give quite a bit of resistence.

    If you really listen to the tyres and engine durring a race the game does a pretty good job of communicating the threshold of traction. Lord knows I would not try to drive 10/10ths at Laguna Seca(unless I was being paid to race) but on a video game working lap times down to 1:30.xxx is alot of fun.
     
  10. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    #10 Admiral Thrawn, Oct 2, 2004
    So to those who actually own 355s and 355 Challenge cars, what braking distances are reasonable? And from what speeds? Also, can you describe any particular points of interest with regards to the handling characteristics of the car?
     
  11. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
    5,559
    TX
    Full Name:
    Sameer
    #11 speedy_sam, Oct 2, 2004
    Ha ...Ha .. amusing read Admiral.

    I had exactly the same experience as you ... crash at the end of every corner ... the brakes on the simulator suck.

    I found the arcade car difficult to get a comfortable seating position ... I was all scrunched up with my knees hitting the wheel.
     
  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,604
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    Full Name:
    Andreas
    #12 tifosi12, Oct 2, 2004
    I had a Dreamcast version and yes I could save settings, but the chips would loose their memory due to battery failure after a couple of months and I had to start from scratch again.

    Is that different on the PS2? Does the PS2 actually have a hard drive to store the data?
     
  13. pipecrash

    pipecrash Karting

    Jan 30, 2004
    121
    Los Altos, CA
    Full Name:
    Peter A.
    #13 pipecrash, Oct 2, 2004
    Its possible that the versions of F355 sit down arcade game you folks have played might need some adjustment. The service guy at Dave and Busters seems to come in and fix the pedals, shifter and paddles about once a month as some people really abuse the game.

    The new Galleria Ferrari in Maranello has a original version of the F355 game and its in great shape :)

    The other night at Dave and Busters I witnessed a guy in his mid/late 40s really loosing his temper with the game he really made an ass of himself as he wouldnt let others play until he got a reasonable lap time.... Usually there is a group of 2-6 people who are all mellow car folks having a few drinks talking shop around the game and we all take turns racing each other. sigh.. some people dont know to have fun even with a video game :)

    From my experience with the game and actually driving on Laguna Seca the game physics are pretty good and the lap times are fairly accurate.
     
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  14. pipecrash

    pipecrash Karting

    Jan 30, 2004
    121
    Los Altos, CA
    Full Name:
    Peter A.
    #14 pipecrash, Oct 2, 2004
    Tifosi12 the PS2 version like the Dreamcast version saves settings on a memory card. The Dreamcast graphics are better 640x480 than the PS2 320x240 but the Logitech Momo Force wheel mates perfectly to the PS2 so I dont mind a few jaggies on the PS2 as the gameplay makes up for the marginal image quality.
     
  15. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    146
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    #15 zff, Oct 2, 2004
    Years ago, I played the arcade version of F355 Challenge and instantly knew I needed something like this at home. Almost the next day, I bought a Dreamcast, a Mad Catz steering wheel and the game. I built a little rig for the wheel and pedals. (http://www.geocities.com/zff_tifosi/drivingrig1.jpeg)

    The Dreamcast version of the game allowed you to play against other people on-line. It wasn't head-to-head competition, though. You'd drive the race as if you were alone on the track (you can't see the other cars), but at the end, you would see your ranking compared to the others. During the race replay, you could see yourself and the other cars on the track. The cars would magically pass through each other, though. Like the virtual specator thing they have on WRC coverage.

    What I really liked about the Dreamcast game was that you could upload your lap times to Sega's website and see how you rank worldwide.

    http://www.sega-rd2.com/f355/ranking_en/RANK/RANKCOURSE

    Players from Japan always seemed to have amazing lap times -- which led many people to believe the Japanese version of the game was a little different. There were also two techniques many considered cheating. There was something called Nazo drifting that I never understood and was never able to do, and Hiro shifting which I did all the time.

    Hiro shifting was to very quickly upshift twice then downshift once when upshifting. As far as I could tell, it had the same performance advantage over paddle shifting as stick shifting did in the arcade game. I suspect the arcade game had been programmed to retard performance somehow during upshifts in semi-auto mode so that the more difficult-to-master 6-speed mode had an advantage. When the code was ported to the Dreamcast, they left that detuning feature there.

    I always played it with the semi-auto trans, stock car settings and no assists. If you filter the results so that you only view North American players who play semi-auto, stock tuning and no assists, you can see that I'm still ranked 9th at Suzuka, 6th at Monza and I still have my podium at Nurburgring. :)
     

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