Just Purchased #50023, any info? | FerrariChat
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Just Purchased #50023, any info?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by rebirthauto, Sep 29, 2008.

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  1. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #1 rebirthauto, Sep 29, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
    Hey,
    I Just signed off on the purchase of #50023, does anyone have any info. I post some pics, and status report as soon as it will deliver.

    Let's hope Dave is doing well enough to throw some knowledge my way, but he's been quiet lately... and that can't be good.

    Thanks,

    Sebastien
     
  2. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,806
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    #2 bjwhite, Sep 29, 2008
    When on ebay back in June or July, it was listed as it didn't run. Was it fixed first? Black on tan auto...... There was a thread about it back then on here...
     
  3. fletch62

    fletch62 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    333
    Fairhope, AL
    Full Name:
    Larry Fletcher
    #3 fletch62, Sep 29, 2008
    I know that car! A little old lady drove to church on Sunday and raced it on Friday, I remember the blue hair, she also baked a good pie.

    Larry
     
  4. David Danhof

    David Danhof Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    55
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    David Danhof
    #4 David Danhof, Sep 30, 2008
    Sabastain, I looked at the car not long ago. Did you see it in the flesh? quite different from the pictures posted.....

    A good project not ready for parting out. They had it sold several times via ebay to foreign buyers who never completed the deal.

    All the best with the car. PM if you want to discuss further.
     
  5. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #5 rebirthauto, Sep 30, 2008
    Thank you all for the replies, except for the funny guy about the old lady;)

    I will see this thing in the flesh tomorrow morning.

    I found this post:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206828&highlight=50023

    Judging from the general direction of this thread and post, I must say that I have realistic expectations for this car.

    I actually bought the car for some knick-knacks (to install on 44121), but from the pics that were sent to me, the car actually grew on me, and if the car has good basics, then I guess we're going to be reviving yet another one of these.

    I'll keep you posted.
     
  6. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,231
    #6 aidanparte, Sep 30, 2008
    Good luck with the car! You must be mad - two 400s!

    Aidan
     
  7. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #7 rebirthauto, Oct 1, 2008
    Alright here's what we've got so far:

    The car is actually a lot nicer than I was anticipating.

    The body is remarkably rust free and straight, short of some dings, scratches, and pry marks where a crow bar genius decided not to look for the passenger side hood release and go for the kill trying to open it instead.

    The interior is the weakest part of the car. We've got new leather and carpet on the way.

    The electrical system was massaged by the radio/alarm/radar clowns, and in true industry fashion, they have manage to make most of the car's systems inoperable. This part will most likely be completely rectified tomorrow, no big deal.

    The injection system is somewhat puzzling. The right bank CIS is dumping fuel full bore, nicely filling a few cylinders. Now, we've taken it apart to make sure the piston wasn't sticking, and it is not. So I guess we'll have to figure out what is happening here. Any clues would be appreciated.

    We'll hopefully fire this thing up tomorrow, and I should turn in a full report.

    Sebastien
     
  8. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,806
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    #8 bjwhite, Oct 1, 2008
    Funny. In 1992 I was driving down the highway in my friend's 1986 German-built Volkswagen Jetta GLI (one of the best cars ever) when it went FULL rich. Remember, these cars were CIS-E.

    In this case, the problem was that a ground wire on the lambda sensor circuit shorted out and caused the o2 sensor to whack out causing the computer to think "FULL RICH". It was quite amusing, but also a very easy fix.

    CIS is CIS is CIS. So check the basic stuff too....it could be something really easy.
     
  9. David Danhof

    David Danhof Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    55
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    David Danhof
    #9 David Danhof, Oct 2, 2008
    Sounds like the car is in the right hands. Hope it works out with the CIS. I also hope you can track down the records of the $30k spent on the car before it was parked. I understand the car was in Florida. It looked to me as it suffered from the storage not the prior owner.

    Keep us posted.
     
  10. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,998
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    #10 dstacy, Oct 2, 2008
    I'm baaaaaack...........

    Sorry I don't know much more than you do. I would suspect the validity of anyone recently spent $30k on that car in service.
     
  11. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    #11 blkprlz, Oct 2, 2008
    Is it just a few or all 6? Does the piston have 'smooth' operation as opposed to not stuck? Control sys. pressure/reg./accum.? Fortunately, it's K-basic, no lambda or electronics of KE (all the way thru 412's---imagine that).
     
  12. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #12 rebirthauto, Oct 2, 2008
    Hey Dave, welcome back.

    Bruce,

    I need some education on the K stuff.

    On the right bank (and the left as well), the piston is nice and free, riding up and down smoothly. The mixture adjustment is also functional. Pressure and flow are in check, and so is the pressure adjusting module. All six are squitring out full bore.

    On the left bank we found that the aftermarket fuel pump is incapable of generating anything past 45 psi and therefore is completely useless. We also found that in the spring regulated fuel bypass valve back to the tank, and o-ring was missing and therefore might have explained why the "$30k mechanic" might have believed the original pump to be defective (although it was probably perfect), which he then replaced with the inferior unit, which then didn't push enough to trigger the injector which then resulted in the tampering (hold your breath for this one!!!) of the individual injector adjustment ............aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh. This one is going to be a pain.

    Do you guys have the Bosch cross ref. on the fuel pump?

    I'm not sure if this is normal, but I found that when setting the fuel block back down into the assembly, the piston (when sitting to the edge of the chamfer out of the bore, which I assume is the neutral position) gets push upwards nearly a quarter inch. This enriches the mixture and might cause the squirting, but unless I've got the wrong length piston in there I don't see how this can fit otherwise.

    I would like to officially retract my statement about firing this thing up today, sorry.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  13. fletch62

    fletch62 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    333
    Fairhope, AL
    Full Name:
    Larry Fletcher
    #13 fletch62, Oct 2, 2008
    For CIS problems you need to call me, that is what I do for a living. I can send you all the test specs and cross all the Bosch part numbers. My business is rebuilding Fuel Distributors and Warm up Regulators. It sounds like someone probably tried to "fix It" and has misaligned something in the fuel distributor.

    Larry Fletcher
    CIS Flow Tech Llc.
    251-929-3771
     
  14. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #14 rebirthauto, Oct 3, 2008

    I'm traveling for the next 4-5 days, but I'll try to ring you as soon as the opportunity arises.

    Thanks,

    Sebastien
     
  15. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    #15 bundas, Oct 3, 2008
    working on my latest purchase, an 82 with a fuel leak on left fuel pump i discovered, by chance that pump on my delorean was the same. $80 fix. fuel accumulator and maybe dist. are all same bosch times two. any feed back. am i right?
     
  16. fletch62

    fletch62 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    333
    Fairhope, AL
    Full Name:
    Larry Fletcher
    #16 fletch62, Oct 3, 2008
    Sebastien,

    I will be in Tunica MS 9th thru 12th for the 308 event, but otherwise will be here. I look foward to talking with you.

    Larry Fletcher
    CIS Flow Tech Llc.
     
  17. fletch62

    fletch62 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    333
    Fairhope, AL
    Full Name:
    Larry Fletcher
    #17 fletch62, Oct 3, 2008
    All CIS stuff is very simalar, the 400, 412, and 512BBi fuel systems have more in common with the 280 Mercedes (M110) engine. The Delorean fuel system is more in common with a 760 Volvo. You are right that the fuel pumps and accumulator will interchange. Most CIS parts on low production cars are parts that were built for hi production cars and adapted to work.

    Larry Fletcher
    CIS Flow Tech Llc.
     
  18. laperriere

    laperriere Karting

    Mar 10, 2006
    162
    Montreal
    #18 laperriere, Oct 4, 2008
    Hi, I had the fuel pumps changed as well. The good thing is that the Bosch pump is still being produced. The bad thing is that production was moved from Germany to a low wage east europe country but the quality stayed at the border. So, only the third pump was all right, the two first ones did not work for more than one or two hours. The Bosch reseller made no problem to provide with a new one, they were pretty aware of that ailing quality standard since the production had moved.
    On the invoice, the pump was rated I think 300 or 400 $.
    The problem is that the mechanic is not very pleased to mount the pump, unmount the pump ... At the end of the day, someone has to pay for that and Bosch won't do it. They made no problem to take back the bad one and provide with a new one, but Bosch does not care how much time it takes to mount/unmount it. Make sure you have a guaranty that covers the time spent on it, if you can get it. Bosch should improve its quality control, we - as buyers- should not have to be charged for time spent by a mechanic dealing with crap pumps.
    Hope it helps
    Otherwise, as you say, the full Bosch architecture is share with many other german cars. The only difference is that ferrari made it double, one for each 6 cyl side. There are many posts on it.
    Good luck anyway.
    Olivier
     
  19. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2004
    3,493
    Schmeckelstan
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #19 markcF355, Oct 7, 2008
    I bought two Bosch knock-offs (China?) on ebay. I installed one (three hundred miles ago) and it seems to work great (knock on wood). The cost of the two units with shipping was $140. Bosch make several pumps with this units specs. the only difference being the pressure side fittings.

    If I find the details, I'll post them.
     
  20. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    #20 jacques, Oct 7, 2008
    Rock Auto.com Bosch# 0 580 254 942..the pump comes complete with the fuel check valve..$160 smackers..this is the direct replacement that delivers 75plus pounds pressure..hope this helps..Jacques.
     
  21. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #21 rebirthauto, Oct 8, 2008
    Thank you all for the info.

    I've sent the fuel distributors and WURs out. I've heard from many sources that Larry sure know his stuff.

    In the meantime, we'll be yanking the interior.

    I'm trying to shame Ron Clark out of retirement (and what a challenge it has been) to come by the shop and go over my two non-stratospheric ferraris. I guess once you've operated on some of the most glorious metal maranello has ever put out, then the rest are just ferraris, right;)

    PPI stands for Post Purchase Inspection, for people like me.

    I've posted some not so exciting pics of the car's arrival at http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/rebirthauto/1984%20400ia/ .

    I STILL NEED A REAR GLASS FOR THE OTHER 400i.

    I'll keep you posted.
     
  22. markcF355

    markcF355 F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2004
    3,493
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    Full Name:
    Mark
    #22 markcF355, Oct 9, 2008
    Wow, ain't that the truth.
     
  23. rebirthauto

    rebirthauto Karting

    Mar 25, 2007
    161
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Sebastien
    #23 rebirthauto, Apr 23, 2010

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