Just sold my Ferrari to buy more TSLA | Page 53 | FerrariChat

Just sold my Ferrari to buy more TSLA

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by JERRYZ, Feb 11, 2014.

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  1. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    I think we will see gas stations charge $20 or whatever amount for a charge or per KW to pay for the equipment and electricity.
     
  2. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    #1302 freshmeat, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
    This is not a scalable approach; it would cost too much and you would need to exponentially manufacture an insanely large amount of batteries in order to service this sort of infrastructure as more and more EVs are on the road, in an already highly battery-constrained present world (for every EV you’d need a minimum of 2x batteries, one to recharge, one to reinstall). Tesla pivoted away from this model because it’s simply not scalable, this is common sense.

    As for the ppl still insisting OEMs will catch up and quickly eclipse Tesla, bear in mind, this is the same spiel I’ve heard since 2012. As long as OEMs continue to build ICE engines and split resources for it, this will never happen, end of spiel. I’d say Tesla still has a 4-5yr edge as of this post, and the gap will widen once they are fully integrated into their own battery mining, battery manufacturing of their own unique battery chemistry and tab-less design.

    If anyone has the latest beta full-self-driving software beta...minds have been blown. And no OEM has the data or tech Tesla has been able to harvest for autonomy. Closest rival as of this post is Google’s Waymo...which has 20M miles of data compared to Tesla’s 22.5B with a B.
     
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  3. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    some of the new battery chemistries coming out in a couple of years will cut the changing time in half and that will always improve and so will energy density for them
     
  4. SecretSquirrari

    SecretSquirrari Karting

    Dec 3, 2020
    118
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    J
    Battery cars are different, so the gas station model, the idea of a place dedicated to "refueling", isn't a good fit, even with a mini-mart.
    • Level 3 should be at a fast food joint like McDonald's or Five Guys, or a grocery store - someplace where it would be natural to spend 20+ minutes.
    • High-power level 2 chargers (like 48A) would be a good fit at places like movie theaters or malls, where spending 2+ hours is natural.
    • Low power level 2, or level 1, would be put at work places, hotels, or other places where spending 8+ hours is natural.
    But all of them need to be either free (loss-leader to pull in business) or using the Plug-And-Charge model that Tesla has done so well.
     
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  5. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    There’s another option too, that Elon himself has discussed with the Robotaxi model, and that is the remote “Summon” that can also be combined with ride share.

    Also, why Tesla will have its own insurance offering for their vehicles.

     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    Tesla’s biggest problem will be servicing all these cars. Without a dealer network, like Toyota, they’re screwed. Service complaints are all ready building.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  7. SecretSquirrari

    SecretSquirrari Karting

    Dec 3, 2020
    118
    Chicagoland
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    J
    Agreed, they are having serious growing pains, though there are some offsetting factors:
    • The sales experience is much better than at a traditional dealer.
    • The cars require a lot less service, so exposure to Tesla's below-average service capabilities, and the load on those capabilities, is reduced.
    • An awful lot of service is done at your home or workplace by their mobile service Rangers, which is very nice.
    That said, initial build quality and post-sale service are two areas where the legacy car brands are well positioned to eat Tesla's lunch if they can get close to Tesla in the other areas.
     
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  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    Remember Toyota walked away from Musk, NUMMI, and Tesla. Toyota doesn't do things lightly.
     
  9. FerrariFinally

    FerrariFinally Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2018
    541
    Roseville, CA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    I seem to remember the conversation going from investments of stocks and then morphing to Ecars vs ICE cars. I do not have an argument for investment purposes as cars are usually the worse type of investment possible. Sell a car for stocks, sell a car for business, sell a car for house...AWESOME!

    But I still stand firm. Ecars do not have the infrastructure to come and go as we please, as available gas stations. When there are enough charging stations for everyone and everywhere, and I can jump in and out in 10 mins for 400+ mile range, then I will bow to electric. As of right now, gas rules. End of discussion.
     
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  10. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
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    I agree with you, and the facts agree with you too. Let me be explicit, though. As of today, 12/28/2020 - ICE rules. Of course, it does.

    But with companies like Mercedes, Ford, GM, VW, Fiat, and Honda saying they will go all-electric in the next 10-20 years?

    Writing is on the wall, friends. As I said, smoke 'em if you got 'em. Unless some miracle invention stops C02 from tailpipes (irrelevant if you believe in Global Warming or not), electric won. End of discussion.
     
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  11. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #1311 paulchua, Dec 28, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    It seriously cracks me up with all the major players are defacto saying Tesla was right and are now going all-electric - folks still have their head in the sand.

    This is not fanboi Musk worship, I was a HUGE skeptic, I thought electric cars were a pipe dream. A few folks kept the faith, and Tesla made the most faithful an army of millionaires for it.

    Hey, I was wrong too with original iPhone, ah a blackberry with a screen...whatever. I'm not proud to say that I thought Facebook was just another Friendster, MySpace (before it became the 11th most profitable company in the United States.) When I first heard or "Uber" - I was like yeah right, people are taught since the age of 3 not to get into car with 'strangers.' When I was approached to invest in Bitcoin for pennies, I was like, what is this nonsense. I would be retired on my private island if I listened to any of these folks.

    Change happens, and it happens FAST.

    When GM says they are going to go 100% electric in the future, or when Honda will ONLY sell ELECTRIC cars in Europe next year, I think it's time to put down the pitchforks and accept reality.

    The sooner the better as well.
     
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  12. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    Coz everyone is like you and does 500mi off-the-cuff, spontaneous drives to unknown destinations all the time...
     
  13. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Another thing that can't be denied is in 10-20 years, solar will make sense for a lot more people (in sunny areas) - the inflection point will be when solar is cheaper than being on the grid. Same with electric cars.
    With Texas, Florida, and California having plenty of sunshine, - it's just a matter of time.

    The environment is not even part of the equation. If an electric car/solar is cheaper and better than alternatives...it's pretty foolish to stick with ICE/Grid.

    You can say prices will not continue down for Solar. You can also beleive computers won't go any faster as well I guess.

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  14. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    this was our exact experience with Tesla. the easiest sales process we've ever had and we had a trade in, all done at our house. car was perfectly reliable no maintenance. when ex had a boyfriend wreck it, was over 6 months to get the car back.
     
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  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    not really, 90% of car usage isn't for 400+ miles. electric makes for the perfect city car high torque and no gas stations, charge it at home once a week. if you want to do 400+ mile trips, then as of today it is tolerable, we did it several times. added an hour each way. Within 5 years that won't be a consideration either.

    city, <500 mile trips, and at the race track Electric > ICE. I don't believe we should ban ICE though as I actually disagree with the #1 reason people have for Electric, that it is more environmentally friendly. I don't know which is better yet efficient ICE or Electric, but in the grand sum +/- I don't think it is too far off from each other. I think we should have a balanced approach to automotive that includes ICE and Electric.
     
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  16. FerrariFinally

    FerrariFinally Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2018
    541
    Roseville, CA
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    Kevin
    All points well taken Paul, and in 10-20 years (like you said, in more sunny states, wonder what non-sunny states will do, back to bicycles I guess), I will be driving an Electric car like the rest of you.

    Btw, gov't is the major driving force in this electric thing, without gov't, and there mandates/$ infused, we wouldn't even be close to where we are with solar panels, cars and charging stations. Started with Obama with emissions, and his percentage of new vehicles required to be electric by major manufacturers (i.e. think Fiat 500E, Leaf, etc), and now ended with our governator Newsome (CA residents like Paul and myself) announcing no more new gas car sales in 2035.

    Hello? We won't have a CHOICE even if we wanted to buy new gas. So your prediction HAS to be right. Give people a choice and let them choose for themselves, nature will takes its course. Obviously, that is not going to happen, because we will never have the choice.

    Glad we can agree to disagree without getting ugly/violent/nasty.
     
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  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    My new Oklahoma ranch I'm considering electric grid vs. solar. My situation a little unique as I need to run new line 3/4 mile.

    $40k for 1/2 mile of poles, 1/4 mile underground, and then the drop. I then have the monthly usage costs.

    right now for an off the grid home solar system with batteries is about $70k.

    I'm probably going to do a home generator for $15k and then when solar comes down more do that.
     
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  18. FerrariFinally

    FerrariFinally Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2018
    541
    Roseville, CA
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    Kevin
    I have said this before also. You want a commute car? Buy a Chevy Cruz that gets 40+ mpg for $15k. Limited trip to gas station and 10 min fill-ups for $30 twice a month.

    Who here has any info on how unwanted ecars/batteries are recycled/disposed of environmentally?
     
  19. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Personally I use a 10k fiat 500e even cheaper and no gas.
    The Ferraris are for fun


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Thanks for the kind note Kevin. I personally understand the consternation. I love my ICE cars. I think our Teslas is boring. But sometimes boring is what most folks need (Toyota)

    :)

    Also, as far as charging stations, right now the technology exists to give about ~100 miles in 8 minutes. The problem is cooling and batteries. I would be happy to bet by 2050, folks will be able to get a full charge at any station in 5 minutes. I'm surprised some players still are investing in Hydrogen. Maybe for planes, but I think for cars, full electric will win out.
     
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  21. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Another thing that is here to stay is Autonomous - the fact that it will save thousands of lives a year will make it standard. Once all the manufacturers agreed on a set language, all the cars sold will 'talk' to one another. Sure, you'll have the occasional error. But you'll see accidents probably go down 90% once implemented. For the other 10% that was the mistake of the manufacturer - a guaranteed payday.

    Mother's against drunk driving will finally fold and achieve their mission.

    I think you'll still be able to drive 'manual' mode, but if you get an accident that's your fault - you'll be 100% liable. (no insurance will cover)

    Probably will have expensive insurance plans for those that want to drive manual.
     
  22. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Good points but I think this further down the line..10 years?


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  23. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    agreed, at least!
     
  24. RMSK

    RMSK Rookie

    Jul 31, 2020
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    Louisville
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    RMSK
    I thought this was a Ferrari chat site!!
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,402
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    This is a Ferrari subform and it did start out on topic Ferrari, but has drifted away. Based on OP or Mod there is potential it could move to another OT forum, but few good options. Silver is subscribed only and Off Topic isn't active.

    This is a community of Ferrari owners & enthusiasts, not just Ferrari topics.
     
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