Just sold my Ferrari to buy more TSLA

You do you, boo. Im busy reading up on the Donnie Callaway thread!

Talk about some emotion!

 

Peace branch again, brother. We share a lot of common ground (despite what internet algorithms do to tear people apart.)


Let me recap on ten things we AGREE on.
1) Hate government subsidies
2) Don't like Musk
3) I agree with you that the 25K car promised is off the table
4) We both think global warming isn't going to make the earth spontaneously explode.
5) You and I Prefer ICE sports cars
6) I wouldn't say I like taxes
7) We don't want anyone getting a 'free ride'
8) Bearish on TSLA
9) Don't think anyone be forced to buy anything they don't want to
10) Hope more manufacturing is here in the US

Are we good with these 10 things?

Now, there are ten things we disagree on.
1) I say EV/hybrid cars have certain performance advantages on a typical public street.
2) I have not seen Elon Musk engaged in financial fraud
3) I don't think Autonomous is a pipe dream (here in my state, Level 3 is live and legal; Mercedes is doing it, so maybe that will make you less angry)
4) Starlink, Space X, PayPal, and Boring are not fake; people use them.
5) Solar panels/Battery packs can save money for many people.
6) I don't believe EV cars are more dangerous
7) Ferrari is going in the right direction (See NYSE: RACE)
8) That human-made CO2 does affect the planet (My Hay Faver confirms that)
9) I don’t think everyone will hate EV sounds forever; or that no 'real' EV sound will ever be created (I like Star Wars, Star Trek, and Dune - so yeah)
10) EVs will eventually get cheaper, more reliable, and not require any subsidies.


I believe I'm being entirely reasonable with my ten claims.

 

No, you are just making up a lot of stuff, again -- my comments:

1) I say EV/hybrid cars have certain performance advantages on a typical public street -- only acceleration (which is a nearly useless advantage and far outweighed by the hassle of recharging and poor range).

2) I have not seen Elon Musk engaged in financial fraud -- I have, selling FSD that isn't FSD.

3) I don't think Autonomous is a pipe dream (here in my state, Level 3 is live and legal; Mercedes is doing it, so maybe that will make you less angry) -- I'm not angry, but you seem to be. "Level 3" is not "Autonomous" (Level 5).

4) Starlink, Space X, PayPal, and Boring are not fake; people use them -- I've never said that they were "fake", just not what Musk said they are. Do you think Musk will have 25 million Starlink subscribers paying $99/month in 2025 or that Starlink would have $15 billion in sales and $7 billion in profit in 2022 like Musk said it would? And how are those tunnels with car elevators working so far to reduce traffic? BWHAHAHA!

5) Solar panels/Battery packs can save money for many people -- In certain locations = maybe, but it always comes with welfare $s.

6) I don't believe EV cars are more dangerous -- Again, I've never said BEVs "are more dangerous".

7) Ferrari is going in the right direction (See NYSE: RACE) -- Maybe here we can agree. Every hypercar will have to be at least be a hybrid (just to get the better acceleration of an electric motor).

8) That human-made CO2 does affect the planet (My Hay Faver confirms that) -- Again, I have never said that it doesn't. I've said "Humans are destroying this planet" and that "Wasting even more fossil fuel and emitting more CO2 to use the inefficient devices and methods of the faux-green religion is stupid" -- I stand by those comments.

9) I don’t think everyone will hate EV sounds forever; or that no 'real' EV sound will ever be created (I like Star Wars, Star Trek, and Dune - so yeah) -- Again, I've never made such a claim. You seem to have a lot of delusions about what I've said in the past.

10) EVs will eventually get cheaper, more reliable, and not require any subsidies -- WHEN!?

 

I swear….

“my dick is bigger.”
“no, mine is.”
“na, uh, mine is!”

Good Lord!

 

My apologies, not my intention; I think your clarifications will only grow our points of agreement.

I have no problem agreeing here!

Totally agree on Musk's is a fantastic marketer and overpromises; I'm talking about Enron and Bernie Madoff stuff. I've already agree with you Musk is a salesman. I think you don't like him personally, and that's fine! We agree on that already!

Never claimed it was Level 5, only that it's coming. I think you're view is it will never be released, like you said the Cybertruck will never come out. I just think forever is a long time.

I mean, they are being used, and the first 3 are profitable. You can prefer Burger King and hate Mcdonald's; that's fine - it doesn't mean Mcdonald's is engaged in bad faith business.

Yes! Agreed!

Yay! Another place we're were in agreement! (see this is good!)

Awesome!!! We're on a streak.

I'll say every year, the pollen counts get larger and earlier (i.e., Longer) - I've talked to botanists (across the aisle) folks who say it's due to plants liking more CO2 concentrations (i.e., like in a Greenhouse) - I used to think the whole thing was hogwash, I'm an "I have to see it to believe it" type person, and I'm definitely 'seeing' (and feeling it) - every year it gets worse. Since the issue is so intertwined with P&R, I'll leave it at that.

Awesome, then I happily retract, I mean, I'm trying to find common ground here. Great!

I mean a Chevy Bolt is $27K (without subsidies) - that's already cheap in my book.


So, after this latest exchange, I think we've reached an agreement on the majority of our thoughts.

Put another way, we align on far more things than disagree.

So, what are the remaining areas of incongruence?

• I say Level 5 will be a matter of time (I say a generation, 20 years, it will be ubiquitous)
• I agree Musk is a showman who oversells and overpromises, is always late, and uses misleading marketing, but I'll stop short that he's engaged in financial malfeasance..
• I think Starlink, Space X, and PayPal are great businesses!
• I have a feeling we'll have a gulf on the intricacies of global warming, but let's leave that off the table since this is not P&R.

I mean, agreeing on 16 out of 20 things is pretty good in my eyes.

 

I think we're making good progress; we actually agree on far more things than disagree.

 

Wrong again -- never said that -- I said that a $40K Cybertruck, "better" than an existing $60 ICEV truck (as Musk promised) will never exist.

I call it "fraud", you call it "over-promises". Please don't post anything more about me agreeing with you -- we don't.

 

Sono felice di abitare in Italia (patria della Ferrari) e fortunatamente vedo pochissime Tesla, sono veramente brutte!!

 

@ChipG

I don't always get timing right, just keeping myself honest with a 2 year look back.

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We're going in circles Steve. If you want to say Musk is late on practically everything. Why would I have a problem with that? I've been making that claim for over 10 years. I knew of him before Tesla days, hell my neighbor is employee #8 of Tesla.

Your issue is with the 40K Cybertruck in your words as "vaporware."

You can go right now and order a Truck, today, for $57K

Vaporware right? Not so fast, the 39K was announced in Nov 2019 - there is this thing call inflation, which makes 40K => 49K today, tack on the 7K subsidy (that we both hate) - and that brings you at 56K, so yeah, I agree that's 1K more then promised, but to call that vaporware is quite uncharitable at best, bad faith at worse.

 

Oh, look, more delusions -- what a surprise!. When Musk posted the "$39.9K" vaporware hype Cybertruck price, it didn't say "after subsidy", but keep believing -- that's what Musk needs to keep the scam going.

 

I need my engine sound

 

You sir are almost correct!!!

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

You can order a Cybertruck for $53K all day.

Musk's $40K promise from 2019? Adjust for inflation, and you're looking at $50K.

Sure, Musk missed the mark by 5%, but calling that vaporware? That's like saying a Plaid Tesla is slow—utterly unfair, no matter how much you dislike Musk. Heck, I'm not his biggest fan either!

 

Strange, I don't remember there being an asterisk in the $39,900 price that Musk claimed, but there is one now in the 53K price? In fact, Musk directly stated in the presentation that the $39,900 priced was without a subsidy of any kind:

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Of course, I don't expect a Fanboi to remember anything that Musk actually said -- the love is too overwhelming, but it sure is great getting other people's money!

PS If the range is claimed to be 250 miles, I'm sure that actual Drivers operating in real world conditions are getting at least 150 miles.

 

Do you get tired of this rhetoric?

 

Steve just checking in, lots of stuff has changed since we last chatted. Are you still anti Tesla and Anti Musk? Lots of people seems to have pulled 180s on the guy.

Saw the Cybertruck is 3rd best selling EV this quarter in the US, behind only the 3 and Y. I think you said it was going to be a colossal failure?

****
In the third quarter, Tesla sold 16,692 Cybertrucks in the U.S., giving it almost 50% market share of EV trucks. What’s more, the average transaction price for a Cybertruck in September was a whopping $116,706, Selling that much volume of a car that expensive isn’t typical. Only about 3% to 4% of the entire U.S. market for new cars cost above $100,000, according to Freedom Capital Markets analyst Mike Ward.
****

Now before you say where is the 40k version, you’re right, just like everything Musk does, he’s always years late. They nerfed it after folks are willing to pay early adopter tax, the cheaper version is on ice and has been shelved. I’m giving you credit where it’s due, but I’ll still say, barring financial shocks in the market, it will come, which has always been my position btw.

That said….

Lately lots of folks I noticed that hated Elon in the past, seem to LOVE him these days. Ive always said he’s a self opportunistic jerk, been saying it for years, so I haven’t changed, just wondering if we still at least agree there, or are even 0 for 2 on this?

 

I've never been "anti-Musk" -- I'm very much still "anti giving US tax payer money to Musk (or anything in the faux-green religion)" and "anti believing Musk's lie that BEVs will reduce civilization's fossil fuel use". I very much like what Musk has done with Twitter/X in terms of restoring free speech and eliminating censorship.

Yes, Tesla's Cybertruck is the tallest midget in the room. You seem to forget about the 2M Cybertrucks that Tesla was going to sell -- how's that going? And, yes, I will say "where's the $40K Cybertruck?". It isn't "late" -- it's vaporware hype that will never exist. Musk is expert at getting rich, first-world people to give him a lot of money for a crappy product (like all the Model 3s that were bought for >$60K or like my neighbor who paid $140K for his Model X).

Has that $30K robotaxi you bought at the end of 2020 been making you $30K each year like Musk promised?

 

I think most people understand any promised prices quoted pre-Covid is nullified considering we experienced one of the greatest inflationary periods post 2020.

Who didn’t raise prices from pre-2020??? Let’s start there before throwing rocks at Musk.

 

Smart people continue to process new information and are open to changing their opinion based on it.

I was not a Musk fan until the past ~18 months or so... Now i am.

I processed new information and changed my opinion. Shocking!

 

Post Enron, the SEC has neutered a lot of CEOs. Time was, a CEO's job was to pimp his ride. EVERYTHING IS GOING GREAT! Musk is old school, and it drives the SEC crazy. The rule is you must disclose. Musk overdiscloses. Man, I had a great crap today. I feel great. Buy Tesla.

The SEC's job is not to say grace. It is make sure all relevant facts have been disclosed. The SEC hates Musk, but I'm thinking that is about to change.

 

Why do you Fanbois keep mischaracterizing my position? I don't hate Musk nor what Musk is doing -- I HATE TAXPAYER MONEY BEING GIVEN TO MUSK! Keep believing Fanboi, I'm sure in 2027, when the $30K robotaxi still doesn't exist, you'll still be posting "Tesla will own autonomy". What's your prediction for Tesla's Q4 EPS? Another whopping $0.60 (even after receiving more billions of welfare $s)? BWHAHAHA!

 

The problem is your posts are contradictory to your claim you dont hate Musk.

most of your posts have nothing to do with disliking Musk getting taxpayer money, but are denigrating to Musks ability to run a company.

Just like this last post "I'm sure in 2027, when the $30K robotaxi still doesn't exist, you'll still be posting "Tesla will own autonomy". What's your prediction for Tesla's Q4 EPS? Another whopping $0.60 (even after receiving more billions of welfare $s)? BWHAHAHA!"

The above had nothing to do with your taxpayer funds gripe.

I agree with you that Tesla shouldnt get any taxpayer money/rebates/etc...

But I also think Musk is the greatest business man since Henry Ford

 

Yes, it does, because the whole reason for giving taxpayer dollars to Musk is his scam that BEVs will reduce civilization's fossil fuel use -- they don't. Anything that needs a subsidy to exist (like Tesla) increases civilization's fossil fuel use as fossil fuel is used to create the money for the subsidy. If you want to phrase it that way: "I hate Musk because he's scamming tax dollars" = OK, yes, I hate serial liar and scammer Musk. My point is that, if Musk was given zero tax dollars, you wouldn't hear a peep from me about Musk. However, thank you so much for telling me about my "problems" -- I just don't know what I would do without you . PS You're a Fanboi, too. How's that $40K Cybertruck working, or those tunnels with car elevators for reducing traffic, or the granddaddy of all Musk BS -- the Hyperloop.