just to report a tranny problem.....lost of reverse, 2nd, and 6th gears....

the 458 Challenge cars still use factory standard DCT's, 458 GT2's and GT3's use racing specific sequential tranny's.

 

Xtrac has been working on their own 'Dual Clutch like' system for a few years (Instantaneous Gearchange System), been testing them in certain race cars. have you heard anything of these? from their info, it looks like a much tidier engineering job, though it's not an exact DCT.

"Instantaneous Gearchange System for Highway Applications

The motorsport transmission specialist Xtrac has applied its high performance engineering skills to design and develop a seamless gearchange known as IGS or Instantaneous Gearchange System. The race car technology, which is protected by worldwide patents, is now ready for commercial development in the automotive sectors. The innovative system avoids the cost, mass and complexity of a dual clutch transmission (DCT) and initial applications will focus on electric vehicles.

Xtrac, whose award-winning hi-tech factory is based at Thatcham in Berkshire, UK, with satellite motorsport operations in Indianapolis and North Carolina, is already heavily involved in developing advanced driveline technology for prototype electric and hybrid vehicles. The company says its latest innovation could help further improve the efficiency of electric vehicles as well as conventional powertrains.

A conventional gearbox has the disadvantage that it is necessary to interrupt the engine torque to change gear, which compromises vehicle performance. By providing a seamless gearchange the IGS mechanism enhances vehicle performance. The application of this latest motorsport technology to motorbikes, cars, trucks and buses would enable them to use less fuel and reduce CO2 emissions.

Details of Xtrac’s simple mechanical system are being revealed for the first time to the automotive industry at the International CTI Symposium and Exhibition being held in Berlin from 29 November to 2 December 2010. This annual forum regularly attracts high level engineers and senior executives seeking information about the latest technical developments in automotive transmissions. Adrian Moore, technical director at Xtrac, will explain the finer points of IGS in a detailed engineering presentation to transmission engineers from vehicle manufacturers and high volume Tier 1 suppliers.

“When introducing new technology to the automotive mainstream it’s important to have progressed beyond the initial research and development phase,” says Moore. “Car makers like to see practical demonstrations to show that the technology actually works and is more than a concept. With our motorsport experience we have the advantage of two years of racing IGS with professional teams.”

Moore’s presentation will explain how Xtrac has integrated a ratchet and pawl mechanism between each gear hub and the main shaft so that two consecutive gear ratios can be selected and engaged simultaneously, but with only one set of gears driving..."
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don't think it has anything to do with your usage being too extreme, these 'new' DCT's aren't that mature of a tech yet as far as road cars are concerned. it looks like this is just the begining of the road to a tranny replacement. still, drive it for all its worth. good luck with your car.

 

Anybody give any thought to the fact that it may not be the transmission, but Ferrari's implementation that may be at fault? Perhaps implementation may be the root cause of every car manufacturer's problem. If this is the case, then the transmissions themselves don't have a design/manufacturing flaw, but rather the car manufacturers and Getrag need to work together to resolve the car manufacturers' implementation flaw.

I'm just throwing this out, because I'm having a hard time accepting that the 458 has a "birth defect." If the problem isn't fixed, what some of you are implying (what I'm interpreting), is that the transmission is likely to have problems if the car is pushed to it's limits and will need to be replaced - and the only reason you would replace a transmission, is because it's damaged. If nothing in the replacement transmission or implementation has changed, there is a possibility of it being damaged again.

... and we all know what a car with a repetitive problem is called. LOL.

 

Just to throw out the other side of the coin. I drive my 458 quite hard and have done so ever since I broke it in at 620 miles. Before break-in, I drove it by the book never exceeding 6,000 RPM and varying the speed constantly. Not saying it does or does not make a difference, but I guess I am old school.

Anyway, I took delivery of the car on March 27th 2011 and have put 3,200 miles on the car since then. Several hundred of those miles have been amassed during 7 track days. I have done 2 days at Road America 186 top speed, 2 days at Hutchinson Island, 140 top speed, 1 day at Gingerman 150 top speed and 1 day at Putnam Park where the ambient air tempature was 100 degrees and 140 was top speed. I also have given a couple dozen demo rides that been lets just say spirited. Surely I thought I would need new pads based on reading all the posts about premature brake wear and premature tire wear and given the fact that we are getting very close to end of the driving season here in Indiana, I decided to take the car to the dealer for a complete systems checkup and annual maintenance, so I can hit the ground running when I go to Daytona in January to run the high banks and the road course.

Too my surprise, I had only 30% wear on the front pads and 20 % wear on the rear pads. The rotars were an outstanding 3% front and 1 % rear. All campaigns are up-to-date and all the fluids were flushed and replaced. The total cost was just $721 which I thought was very reasonable. So why some cars are reporting premature brake wear and tire wear and I am not, is a mystery. I replaced the Bridgestones that came on the car with just 2000 miles on them, they were still good after 4 track days, but I wanted the Michelin Super Sports which everyone has raved about and yes they are better than the Bridgestones and after 3 more track days and another 1200 miles they show no wear at all.

Oh and I would add, that other than the fuse replacement on top of the battery, the car has been flawless and a wet dream to drive hard

I did ask service about the transmission issues I have heard about and they said that in their experience if the car goes over 1000 miles with no issues then you probably won't have any. All the transmission issues they have seen on Calis and 458s have come in the first 1000 miles. FWIW.

 

I think you lost function of one side of the transmission. Reverse and the even gears (2,4,6)
But you were able to limp around on 1,3,5.

Same thing happened to me with the DCT in the Califonria.

Got better then got sick again. They swapped in a new version of the box. So far so good.

 

This makes an incredible amount of sense.

If it is in fact a break-in issue and the transmission is replaced, then if the owner drives the same way again without breaking in the transmission, in theory, it may break again. Definitely something to keep in mind when purchasing cars with less than 1000 miles.

-OR- manufacturing defects show up in the first 1000 miles and break-in doesn't matter.

 

i think its the fact that you might have been too hard on it in track days maybe ?

Having the 458 with about 500miles the gear seems flawless and perfect but these new double clutch systems having been known to fail sometimes.

For example i have a friend who owns a brand spanking new Porsche Cayman R that is supposed to withstand being pushed to the limit , he has been driving it in summer here over 100F about 40c and abusing launch control , and once it got up to 1000miles he tried a top speed run. As soon as he got to 250kmh about 155miles he heard a loud sound in he's gear box ; and a warning message on the dash after a few hours . after taking it to the dealer they told him your gear box is completely trashed :S. Luckily they swapped him a new gear with no problems now

 

Havent heard of any transmission issues down here and there are quite a few cars which are driven as intended. Question, when changing gears in a 458, there is a bloop like noise during gearchanges, noticed this on all three 458s I have been in, anyone know what exactly this is?

 

Just picked up my 458, but pre delivery they replaced the gearbox, due they said due to an oil leak. Afetr reading this three, I am not so sure.

 

I am on gearbox #3 - no track days, 2300 miles on the car.

 

I have owned 3 different 458s (two 2010, one 2011). On two of them, I had to replace the gearbox after 6,000 and 8,000 miles, respectively. I track my cars on a regular basis, and I drive them almost every day (it would be a crime not to do so), in a particularly hot weather. The warranty was denied on both of them, with no explanation from the dealership, who told me the instruction came from FNA directly. I replaced the gearboxes at my own cost, for $21,000 each. I sent a letter to FNA 6 weeks ago in order to get my money back, and an explanation. I am still waiting for an answer. No meeting, no answer to my calls. Ferrari specialists in racing or at various dealerships (even in Europe) will all admit – off the record - that the Getrag gearbox had issues in the first place. Please refer to other threads related to the 458 Challenge car issues. It seems to be a pretty serious issue - at least for me it is – that Ferrari has been reluctant communicating about. I own several other exotic cars that I drive the exact same way, including other Ferrari’s (Scuderia and F430), and I never experienced such issues. If anyone has experienced the same issue, please do not hesitate to contact me. If you are hesitant to discuss this issue on the forum please PM me and I will keep your identity confidential.

 

Oh oh, I'm getting nervous - my car is due for delivery next month. Why would Ferrari deny warranty coverage - tracking an issue?

 

Something does not seem right. You are within the warranty period, why does ferrari have a problem with replacing your DCT's.

Do you think it is because they have found out you track your 458 road car? Does the warranty cover tracked miles?

Are you using the 458 commercially / tracking as in "the 458 experince" at the track?

Nevertheless, Ferrari needs to stand up with thier responsibility (which I would think they would / should) even if you do track the 458 road car.

sorry to hear that David

greyhair

 

ouch! that is pretty nuts. can't believe you had to do all that! from everything now coming to light, it seems that there really are issues with that Getrag...they were touted as being ready for prime time in high powered production run applications...now we're starting to see more and more troubles...sure more is to come..,

maybe they should've kept on developing the F1 superfast tranny...we'd prob be at F1 race cars shift speeds. and an aside, i mentioned earlier that Xtrac had been developing a much more simplistic dual clutch alternative...much lighter, fewer parts to break...worth keeping an eye on that in the years to come..

 

seriously, man, I commend you...... I mean FNA should at least call you or face you for the problem and the fact that still is under warranty, you can actually sue them for not honoring that and yet, still owned three 458's..... unbelievable =)

 

Rumors has it a wiring harness internal to the trans is causing issues.

 

Wiring harness ?

I was told that there were issues with internal sensors and that they have been swapped in the latest version (model year 2012).

BEFORE that, there were problems with loosening connectors inside the gearbox - maybe that was Your point ?

Cheers,
Ulli

 

After a couple of letters from my attorney to FNA, I am still waiting for an answer from them. I tried to contact them through my dealer, still nothing. They know they are wrong, and they are hiding. At least I would like to know why they are declining the warranty: if they had a good reason, I would be happy to hear it. Yes, I track my cars on a regular basis, so? What should I do with a 570hp 200mph+ car? I am becoming really really upset. I was travelling for a while and could not work on the issue, but I am back on it. I got a lot of information from other owners, in particular of Challenge cars. I will keep you posted, but at the end of the day I might be not be on this chat, as it is dedicated to Ferrari owners. Cannot wait to test this new McLaren in March.

 

Sound like Ferrari is represented by Farmland. Sorry to hear of your issues.

 

My 458 is a 2010 model and has 6300 miles on the clock. I always run the car in race mode. I have not had a problem with the tranny.

This is my third ferrari and over the years I have found the dealership and Ferrari to be good ay making things right both short term and a longer fix if needed. The 458 is heads above the older Ferraris concerning problems. I think it is close to most cars concerning problems. Which is to say very few.

Lee