Just when I thought it was safe... | FerrariChat

Just when I thought it was safe...

Discussion in '348/355' started by dgpIII, Mar 8, 2007.

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  1. dgpIII

    dgpIII Karting

    Jun 23, 2006
    148
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    DGP
    to jump in the pool, more is revealed. I found what appears to be a very clean '98 355 with 12K miles, steel valve guides, all service records, and major belt service completed by ferrari dealer within the last 3-4 months. So very close to pulling the trigger but now further research on this forum brings to light (amongst other things) the "headers prone to melting and cracking and will need to be replaced" issue.

    Is this a certainty and if so, when should I expect to have to do it? (years/miles.)

    What other major repairs should I expect assuming I buy the car and drive it 5000 miles a year for the next 5-10 years and what kind of money are we realistically talking about.

    Maybe it's true what one dealer told me, ie., I'd be better off spending an extra $40000-$60000 now for an early 360 than spend that same amount of money on "inevitable repairs" on a 355. Are all the expensive 355 repairs during the first 45000-60000 miles really inevitable?
     
  2. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,720
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    Figure an extra 5k for headers. yes they will fail, and your good to go. I've got 33k on mine and other than the headers(replaced by Ferrari) and a seal replaced on the clutch, it has been very reliable. I will need to replace the potentiometer for the seat(couple hundred bucks worth of Jag parts). Drive it and enjoy. Make sure the valve guids were actually replaced.

    Darrell.
     
  3. dgpIII

    dgpIII Karting

    Jun 23, 2006
    148
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    DGP
    Nit picky I know, but is it also true the car burns a quart of oil every 500 miles. The list of gotta do's and gotta haves starts to seem endless...kind of like a bad comedy...
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways
    The two big issues on 355's are valve guides and headers. Of these two, the headers can be handled proactively with the engine still in the car. If you have no damage to them yet. A big if.

    You can ceramic coat the headers for ~~ $1,000 and be good to go. Or you can buy aftermarket headers from $1,700 up to $5,000, depending on taste.

    Or you can have sleeves welded to the outside of the areas that typically melt through for about $500 (not a great solution, by the way).

    These are not large expenses for a Ferrari. You aren't buying a Honda. Look at the maintenance costs on aircraft (e.g. regular annuals).

    People may tell you that you can drive a Ferrari for as little as $1 per mile, but that's the rare exception (Euro 308's seem to fall closer to that figure than most).

    If the expenses unnerve you, please don't buy a Ferrari. It does no one any good to have an unhappy owner.

    Buy below your means; drive above them.
     
  5. dgpIII

    dgpIII Karting

    Jun 23, 2006
    148
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    DGP
    Ignorance might be bliss for some but personally I don't like surprises. I also don't like signing blank checks on open-ended deals; never have, never will. Does an extra $10000 on a $75000 used car "unnerve" me? No...but an extra $50000 on a $75000 used car would make me feel foolish. Just trying to get all the relevant details up front so I can make an intelligent and informed decision. I think it's called due diligence and I think it's appropriate. I get a little tired of the "if you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it" attitude some people seem to revel in. I suspect most people who drive a 355 can't afford an F430 but it doesn't mean I respect them any less for it.
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    If you buy a well-kept 355 with a recent Major Service and prior valve-guide upgrade to sintered steel, you are ahead of the game.

    With good exhaust headers, you can jet-coat them and avoid painful expenses later on.

    However, there are still some F1 issues if your intended 355 isn't a stick.

    But outside of the above, you are clear of the major 355 "expected" expenses.

    Still, it's not a Honda. You don't just gas it up and go. I say this because if you have Honda expectations, you may wind up unhappy.

    If you've owned ***and used*** a high maintenance vehicle before (e.g. large powerboat, aircraft, exotic car, track/race vehicle) then buying a Ferrari with a little due diligence is no great stretch. By all means go for it. They're great. I recommend them. I drive one *every* day.

    But...if you've never owned a vehicle that **requires** high levels of scheduled service, plus has a few tendancies for large unscheduled expenses, then you are quite likely to be unpleasantly surprised no matter your level of initial due diligence.

    I could get more specific if I knew more about you. Finances. Past experience. Future expectations. Etc.
     
  7. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,720
    San Diego
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    Darrell
    Really if the valve guides are done ,the only other big issue, are the headers. Other than that it is no different than any other high end car. Propper preventive maintaince is the key to enjoyment.


    Darrell.
     
  8. dgpIII

    dgpIII Karting

    Jun 23, 2006
    148
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    DGP
    Thanks for the info. I'll try to make good use of it.
     
  9. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2007
    3,653
    rock bottom
    Spend $4k on some sweet aftermarket performance headers, or $60k more for a 360? Seriously?
     
  10. dgpIII

    dgpIII Karting

    Jun 23, 2006
    148
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    DGP

    Seriously and I was skeptical as well, but two different dealers made that suggestion - better to pay more now for an early '99-'02 360 than to pay later for all the repairs and service (and frustrating down time) which will be required with a 355. I didn't necessarily believe it then (assumed it was just an attempt to get deeper into my pocketbook) but after some research it does seem like the 355 is more subject to potential problems - many of them fairly expensive, with the potential to turn a fairly good deal on a $75000 used car into a mediocre or bad deal on a $75000 used car plus repairs. Just trying to get all the facts before I trade in a perfectly good Corvette on a problematic Ferrari - but then again, I've also been known to jump out of perfectly good airplanes because I like to fly.
     
  11. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,425
    CT
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    Jay
    Another factor to consider is depreciation - 360's are still coming down, 355's are close to bottomed out (my guess). I found a great deal on a '99 355 so there's no valve guide issue. And you can save quite a bit in maintenance by reading tips in this forum and turning a wrench or two.
     
  12. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    20,958
    MD and NE
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    Robbie
    Don't let an F1 car scare you---there is NO proof to the F1 gearbox always, constantly or ever going bad is most cars. VERY few people have suffered problems with them. One car out of 1000 has a pump failure and everyone is scared of them!!!
     
  13. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,720
    San Diego
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    Darrell
    The only really expensive problem with the 355 IS the valve guides. And you state that the car in question has already had them replaced. Other than that, It requires normal maintaince like any other car. I'm not sure what other repairs you mean. A 360 is going to depreciate MUCH more than the service on a 355 will cost.

    Darrell.
     
  14. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways
    The F1 shouldn't scare anyone (sorry, I didn't mean to imply that above), but it's not issue-free (nor should that be expected).

    The pump is expensive from Ferrari, but it can be sourced elsewhere for much less and it's failure can often be prevented/delayed by simply replacing a $50 relay.

    The F1 clutch should also be set with the proper Ferrari digital tool to avoid premature clutch wear. Ditto for F1 owners/drivers making certain to not back an F1 car up an incline.
     
  15. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,326
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Get the 355 if u like it and don't worry about the header problem. Get the car PPIed and if the headers are broken, factor it into the price or have the seller replace them. QV London does a permanent repair on the stock pipes, if u want them for about $3K - forever. Or as ppl suggest, just replace them eventually. The header problem is a more severe turn in one pipe on each side that causes premature wear from the exhaust gas stream. QV London replaces those pipes with thicker ones and I believe lessens the bend slightly.

    Personally, when I was looking for a 355, it was the guides that governed my choices. Of course, I bought another 348, so there's that. :)
     
  16. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
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    goth
    $75K for a 355 with guides and belts?? Buy it!!! :D
     
  17. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    20,958
    MD and NE
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    very well put!!!!
     

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