Keeping your Ferrari all original - required or desired!!!

I absolutely agree with Terry. Vintage Ferraris changed from race to race, and certainly season to season. 63 GTOs rebodied as 64s, engine modifications, and so on. This was not about making them less collectible, it was about making them more competitive.

 

Terry, that's not fair as you know me too well ! After further consideration I have changed my mine. I encourage everyone to modify their Ferraris as much as possible, especially if you own a BB512i. I believe you should even consider adding aftermarket body panels and rear wings. I love those LM fender flairs. Don't forget about Norwoods, wouldn't turbo plumbing look great under that bonnet ? And there are a lots of great fuel injection conversions out there as well as NO2 kits. If you spend enough money you can turn that Italian beauty into an NSX. When you are ready to sell let me know so I can put mine on the market at the same time. Merry Christmas. Love, Frankie

 

OK Frank,
I guess you got me, Happy Holidays... (8->}

Bill

 

Terry brings up a very good point. The 365 and 512 bb's as anyone who's tried to race one has found out have a very poor oil system. People who took these cars to LeMans Johnnie (AutoSport) Alberto (WWOC) and Bob Wallace did a lot of developement work and changed the pan,pickup, pumps, and passages. The engines not only ran much better but they stayed together. A lot of people have ulitized this developement in street 365's and 512's and the cars that have been modified esp. those done by any of three are the one's I consider.

 

Someone said it earilier, common sense must prevail. Cosmetically, I wouldn't want to change a thing, even those gym looker door handles on the GT4. But when it comes to internal and performance enhancements I say "why not" within reason. That doesn't mean putting a GM V8 into a 400 or a Daytona, but I see nothing wrong with changing oil pans/pickups, ignition, fuel pumps, alternators/ batteries or rubber/rims.

 

Hi, everyone ... I just HAD to throw in my thoughts! Yes, I'm the one who is working to pick-up additional concours points. Yes ... I find this process interesting, and challenging ... No ... I'm not obsessed. I drive my cars (safely!), although not as many miles a year as many (+/-2500mi). I'm very happy with the balance.

We are really talking "apples and oranges" here ... there is absolutely no reason for anyone to get all tweaked over this topic. It's like so many hobbies ... whether it's showing dogs, or ballroom dancing ... there are many different motivations for an individuals involvement.

I speak from authority ... because I've shown dogs, and my wife and I are very dedicated to competitive ballroom dance! There is always someone who thinks that we "purists" take our hobbies far too seriously. There are far more ballroom dancers who get tremendous enjoyment from their dancing, without worrying about if each step is done perfectly ... than there are those of us who get a wonderful satisfaction out of working hard to master the tiniest subtlety of a movement. But that's what makes the world go around, isn't it. There is plenty of room for us all.

Those who enjoy their hobbies on a more casual basis, needn't feel threatened by the dedication to detail of the rest of us. As with balloom dance ... perfection has it's place. A beautifully restored, nearly original Ferrari is definitely a sight to behold. And there IS value to historical preservation.

Peace ... out!

( ps DrTax ... will you visit southern cal in the future? We should connect, if so :-D )

 

Bill, next time I have to head to Irving, I'll definitely give you a heads up. I think that it's been about 3 years since I have seen your car. Plan B is that I'm planning on driving to Pebble this Summer. See you there.

ps Next time one of those anal concours judges gives you a hard time, ask him or her to prove that the @#!$@# hood latches were painted, ha!

 

Hoooeeee, this thread is HOT! Man, almost enough fun to pass up a Christmas vacation in LV. Parkerfe, gettin' tamped down a bit, I see. It's good for you--you need it. BobZ, Bill365, Tspringer, and all of you guys did a wonderful job of giving a balanced view of origionality vs. modification--darn thread should be published in some (Sports Car Market maybe?) magazine. Can't think of anything to add.....

So, since so many mods were mentioned, has anyone come up with a good, invisible pointless ignition system for vintage V12s? BobZ mentioned the Bosch Blue Coils as being great. Setting points looks like fun the first few times, but maybe not after that. I saw an ad that said Lumenition does Magnetti Marelli and I've got a line into them.

Parkerfe, don't go to DefCon III, or I might put one of those 8" single tube Honda exhausts that make the vicious little farting sounds on my GTC and come looking for you......

 

The US Constitution has amendments Those amendments improve the US Constitution, while maintaining the integrity of the original document.
No different to a gearhead is an amendment to a vintage Ferrari that improves the Ferrari, while maintaining the the original Ferrari.
After all is said and done, the US is a melting pot, while the last thing one wants is for a Ferrari's pot to melt.

 

For whatever its worth I must agree with Bob. My 86 testa has 30K on the dial, but my 308gt/4 has 300,000m.I rebuilt the tranny and engine at 220. Orginal crappy paint. But the kids and I love the car...especailly through the McDi's drive through...always a blast. These cars should be driven.I strongly believe if you are thinking about the next owner, go out and lease your next car. A ferrari should be different from your Porche, or BMW. It should be the car you cant wait to start and hear. Love both my cars and would not give that up for 3 new ZO6 vettes. Unless I could keep the money and buy my cars back.

The ferrari was made for the soul...not the pocketbook.
Good discussion !!
R.

 

Spotted a glaring omission on my previous post...

No different to a gearhead is an amendment to a vintage Ferrari that improves the Ferrari, while maintaining the integrity of the original Ferrari.

 

First, I was the guy who hated the P4000 - but I admit that others may have a different impression or maybe I got a bad set or something was wrong with the car they were on. You never know.

Anyway, the thing I'm most amazed with by this thread is how poor you guys feel many of the original Ferrari parts are/were! This is shocking since I've been quite satisfied with the parts on the six Fiats ('64 thru '78 models) I've owned and driven as daily drivers over the last 5 years, ha! Since there is no need to keep a Fiat stock, sure, I do things like put in H4 Cibie headlights and relays to them and whatnot, but I don't have any problems with the alternators that came on the car or the cooling fans and radiators and all the other bits and pieces.

 

So, if I understand this logic of some of you, my 250 is no longer original because the State of Maryland required a side mirror to get the car licensed and the factory did not install one. So, out comes the drill and I drilled a hole in the door and installed a bullet mirror. It surely is no longer original because of that act, but it is legal to drive. Seems an easy tradeoff. Now, I have discovered that nobody makes a battery the same size as the battery bracket that the factory installed - all of them are much smaller. So, I have a big bracket holding a smaller battery, it looks stupid and is no longer original, but so what? The car is still driveable. It still has the original ratty Michelins, though, so I guess that scores some points in one camp - or not in the other - and they look and work fine for their age. The car does not get tossed through the corners because of the tires. The car is taken to a show here and there, a romp around the country side a few times a year and a run up and down the driveway about once a month. Just to make sure it is still driveable.

 

I run my cars on the track, Hard, so I cant keep it stock or the dam brakes die & the oil will overheat & the friggin engine will explode. On my road 512TR I've added racing seats to hold me tight as well as harnesses, F50 brakes, Kinesis wheels, & an oil cooler fan which Ferrari never added, & a tubi exhaust. These are all serious performance enhancements which allow my 512 to run very hard for much longer periods. Thats what these cars were really meant for

Back in 1970 Rodger Penske bought a 512M race car from Ferrari for $25k & sank $250k into it to get it to run correctly against the Porsche 917s & the Penske 512M became one of the winningest cars in sportscar racing. Ferrari now embraces that car which is only about 10% Ferrari

 

Modifications of race cars are looked upon quite different that the same mods on road cars. However, even on Ferrari race cars originally is the key to points and value per the International Advisory Council for the Preservation of Ferrari Automobiles, IAC/CFA. So again, it all depends on what you want with your car.

 

William
1040 is very special but inspite of Rodger and Mark's efforts it wasn't the most winning 512. In addition inspite of never winning a race and it's many modifications it did sell for more than any 512M proving that those who actually write checks don't really give a shi t what the "IAC/CFA" thinks.
Best

 

Is the IAC/CFA part of Ferrari or part of a Ferrari Club ? Wonder what they would make of my 512TR race car ? LOL. What about all the Ferrari race cars in the UK Maranello Challenge, how are they viewed ?

By the way, another mod, we had to intsall larger bearings on the 512TRs axles during maintenance

 

So not only do you guys disagree with me about the benefit of keeping your Ferrari motorcar original, now you disagree with the internationally respected experts at IAC/CFA too. FYI, I could care less what you do with your cars. I just thought that on an informational web site such as FC that info on what the experts in the field such as IAC/CFA use to judge Ferraris would be of some interest.

 

Bob:

I side with you. Toward that, do you know of any non-F substitution for the heater blower fan assembly on an '84 308 GTS? I found a relatively new one from Spal US for 119 and a new original from Dennis at $260. What do you recommend?

 

Boy am I lucky that the Judges at Pebble, Louis Vutton , and Greenwich didn't talk to those guys...

 

.

 

While I've never been, from what I have read the concours at Pebble Beach does use the IAC/PFA criteria for judging Ferraris.

 

Well Frank I have and I've won a trophy. I found that the Judges were real enthusists who understood that originality in a race car isn't possible. Freezing a moment in time such as the photo in the Rolex shot of my car (behind me at Monterey) is great in a photo but would be sad to do to a race car as it wouldn't start the race. When that photo was taken the tub sill of my car was unmarked. During the race the tail blew off and Bruce McLaren threw down his helmet denting the tub as he set off to retrieve it. If he hadn't dented the tub it would have remained more original. I for one am glad he soldiered on on and finished the race.
(You can see the dent he made near my elbow)

 

International Advisory Council for the Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile