Kludgy wiring | FerrariChat

Kludgy wiring

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by GT Jones, Jun 12, 2013.

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  1. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Hey Guys,
    I've just subscribed and changed my user name - formerly Christian J.
    I bought a '78 400GT a few months ago from a guy in CT but have just started to really dig into it. The turn signals were flashing quickly and it had been dismissed as just a dead bulb or two. Headlights, brakes, reverse and driving lights are all working fine. Today I opened things up to change bulbs and make sure all of the grounds were solid. Whoa! This makes my old TR6 look like aerospace certified wiring. A few questions:
    -Is there a list somewhere of bulb wattage for each location? I was amused to find random bulbs scattered throughout
    -Do the tail lights come with some goopy sealant to keep moisture out of the trunk?
    -Can I assume that the small 'dot' marker lights on the side of the front bumper should work?
    -I can't get running lights without also having the headlights flip up. Has anyone changed this?
    I'll post a few pics too.
     
  2. mseals

    mseals Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 9, 2007
    24,468
    Kuwait
    Full Name:
    Mike Seals
    Christian,

    On this board, you don't just....uhh... change your user name.

    Your other account, Christian J, was active today. And, by the way, it's Silver Subscribed.

    If you wish to have a user name changed, please contact Rob Lay at [email protected]

    Otherwise, you actually have two accounts, and that isn't allowed on this board.

    Mike
     
  3. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    alright. let me sort that out with Rob.
     
  4. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,210
    San Leandro, CA
    Full Name:
    Bill Henley
    An Owner's Manual lists the bulbs. I got a copy of iirc the 1984 version, for my '83 400i, online somewhere, but I can't remember where. I expect someone will chime in with a link to a source.
    Don't know on this one.
    On my '83 they light up when the other lights are on.
    Are you referring to the fog lights in the grille? On my '83 these illuminate only when the high beams are on, or when I have the low beams on and I push in the fog light button. Pushing in the button also causes the inner pair of headlights to illuminate, but at a very low level. The button also causes the red lights in the rear bumper to illuminate.

    I, myself, have been wanting to ask the forum if my fog light button's action is correct, i.e., do the fog lights only come on when the low beams are already actuated, and does the button also illuminate all four headlights. This latter feature makes the fog light button unusable in an urban environment, since oncoming traffic, and drivers immediately in front, will assume I am practicing the hostile act of failing to dip my high beams. This misperception can be hazardous to your health.
     
  5. galbert

    galbert Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    352
    sud ouest france
    Full Name:
    Galbert Christopher
    pour les feux anti-brouillard
    il est normal qu'ils ne s'allument que quand les phares sont allumes
    en règle général on allume les phares avant les anti-brouillards

    christopher
     
  6. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    Merci Christopher -
     
  7. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    I would have dismissed the fast flashing as a bad bulb too.
    To activate running lights without headlights popping up/turning on, rotate the headlight stalk towards the dash. The side marker lights will light up as well.
    The Ferrari 400 Register has OM's in PDF files. It's funny that the OM for the 400 doesn't show the smaller bulb wattages but the 365 & 400i versions do. Here's the 400i Series 2 OM, page 103-104.

    http://www.400register.com/manuals/assets/400i-owners-82.pdf

    No goop needed to seat the tail lights to the rear fascia, just gaskets in good condition. Replace them if they're faulty.



    Fog lights (front, rear, or both) generally work in conjunction w/low beams, period. High beams in fog are no good :eek:
    Depends on where your car was intended to be imported as to where the front fogs were hooked up. Some countries required 'daylight flashing lights' (France is among them) so the lenses on the fog lights are yellow & this feature is activated by pulling the headlight stalk towards you (like you would in many modern cars to flash headlights). The Series 2 OM describes this feature on pg. 26.
     
  8. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    #8 GT Jones, Jun 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
    Good info, thanks. I put some time in today and discovered a few things:
    The relay behind the speedo has deformed (melted) and one of the inner windings has what looks like an insulator or plastic melted on it. That can't be good so I'm hunting down a replacement from my local old tyme auto supply shop. Hopefully I can cure the quick flashing tomorrow.

    The fogs work only in low and only with the car running. I still can' t get running lights only and will pursue that wiring mod next winter. The random points for a ground on this car is something that Im working on.

    The dot indicators now work, at least they both did until I broke the bulb on one side. Both of mine are warped due to heat.

    The tail light gaskets were cleaned up and I'll put the housings back in tomorrow. Looking through past threads there are indications that my car was known for reversed tail lights. There are no signs of accident damage but the sealant goobers and mixed bulbs suggest that at some point the rear housings were out and then replaced in the wrong order.

    On one hand its tempting to dive into wiring updates and detailing but I am focused on putting some more miles on this weekend!
     
  9. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Replacement was about $10. Part number is 1ho953227 and fits old VW golf, 944,928 and '78 400's or so it seems.
     
  10. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    I should have read the 400 OM :(
    It appears that running lights with headlight buckets not lifting up didn't happen until the 400i cars, the Series 2 OM states:

    "When turning the knob A (headlight stalk), the outer lights are switched on."
    I - Parking lights and number plate lamps.
    II - Headlights lifted up and low beam on.
    III - High beam.

    The 400 OM states:

    "When turning the knob A the headlights pop up and the outer lights are switched on."
    Position II is for low beams.

    I'm thinking that you'd have to get into the fuse panel, disconnect the headlight lift motor control wire (coming from the headlight stalk switch) & connect it to the low beam circuit (all of this is before the relay) to get your desired results.
     
  11. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    To clarify:

    On my 78 400a:

    1. With stalk at top most position, turning the switch turns on the front sidelights and bumper marker lights, rear lights and number plate lights.
    2. Move switch down one position the pods pop up on on dipped beam.
    3. Move switch down one more position for full beam.

    Turning the switch back in any position closes pods (if up) and kills all lights.

    I'm not sure what lights need to be on for the fog lights to come on when the centre console switch is thrown but will check next few days.

    Any help ?
     
  12. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Checked the fog lights on the 400 today. When i flip the switch both front and rear fog lamps come on when the lights are on in ANY position inc. just sidelights.
     
  13. rzinger

    rzinger Rookie

    Jun 17, 2014
    34
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Dave
    GT Jones - did the turn signal relay fix the rapid turn signal flashing? I'm having a similar issue with my 1986 412...thought I'd check.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  14. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Yes, the relay fixed the rapid flashing.
     
  15. rzinger

    rzinger Rookie

    Jun 17, 2014
    34
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Thanks - up behind the speedo (left side between dash and firewall?)

    Dave
     
  16. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Yes, pay attention to the order of disassembly on the dash panels
     
  17. rzinger

    rzinger Rookie

    Jun 17, 2014
    34
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Thanks Christian.

    Dave
     
  18. Andres_1979

    Andres_1979 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2020
    41
    Chile
    Full Name:
    Andres Kormis
    Hi guys, my car has a problem??? According to this post with position lights it shouldnt pop up the lights..... please your help with some guidance

    1. Turning the switch, turns on the front sidelights, bumper marker lights, rear lights, number plate lights and POP UP THE HEADLIGHT!!!
    2. Move switch down one position and turn on the city light
    3. Move switch down one more position for full beam.

    Regards

    Andres
     
  19. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,869
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Seems normal to me although, my brother had a 412 which would not popup without city lights. I think the dealer could modify how it worked. The flashlight mod is documented in the OM, but maybe some other tweaks were performed?
     
  20. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,498
    North Pole AK
    Plz help me out. What is a “city light”?
     
  21. Andres_1979

    Andres_1979 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2020
    41
    Chile
    Full Name:
    Andres Kormis
    Hi, Parking lights
     
    Ak Jim likes this.
  22. Andres_1979

    Andres_1979 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2020
    41
    Chile
    Full Name:
    Andres Kormis
    Hi I willdo the question again, my car is working this way (1979 400GT)

    1. When turning the knob, Parking lights on + Headlights lifted up and low beam OFF
    2. Move switch down one position, low beam on.
    3. Move switch down one position High beam.

    Im not shure if my lights are working correct according to previous post, headlights shouldnt lift when turning the knob

    Regards

    Andres
     
  23. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,869
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    By the default the lights do popup whenever the knob is turned. Out of the 6 (including three 412) cars we had, only one 412 would not popup with knob turned and stalk in the upper position. My brother liked it a lot, bit as said only seen this on that particular 412.
     
  24. Theruse

    Theruse Karting

    Jan 17, 2014
    120
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Prescott Russo
    my turn signal just started quick flashing. Is the flasher relay accessible under the dash behind the speedo and firewall or does the speedo dash unit need to be taken out for access?
     
  25. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,869
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Its between the footwell and the light stalk, above the left foot. you just have to remove the curved leather trm that is below the steering wheel
     

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