Known Exotics in Iowa

That is not true, cars that are unlicensed and will not be driven on the road are covered under your home owners insurance while they are in your garage.

 

Is it not possible to insure a Picasso? Do museums need to register each and every vehicle under their curation (sp?)? Hardly. Does this person(s) have a current dealer license? There are many ways of getting around this issue. It is possible to purchase something for consumption and not pay sales tax on it. Many commercials in which you order direct from TV show which states have applicable sales tax requirements. It is also possible to purchase a car and avoid paying registration, taxes, and fees if there is no intention of ever using it for road use and it is purchased out of state (which of course it was, in Denver, if memory serves). Still, quite compelling reasons to keep their identity under wraps, no?

Whom is NNO? Is that the username? Edit: PM sent.

 

Not sure why the IRS would care....they are federal, and as far as I am aware, there aren't any federal taxes on cars once through the dealer channel. State Treasurer? Sure, I can see that they would, but I don't think they'd have a case.

Let's say, for example, you purchased a TV on eBay, or myriad other items from a private seller. You didn't pay tax on the purchase because it is not anything that is required to be "registered" for use/consumption in your, or any, state. Also missing is any requirement for people such as you and I to be registered to claim and pay tax on items we've sold in any and all states. You do not pay a fee to continue using it year after year, even though you may still use it. You do not have to tell anybody that it "crossed state lines" because, honestly, who cares? Transactions that amount to MANY millions of dollars happen this way each and every day, but that does not constitute a federal investigation and indictment for tax evasion, does it? If so, then every person who has ever purchased an item at a garage sale and used anywhere would be in violation. Nor does it disprove that the item in question does not exist, nor that it does or does not exist or reside in any particular place. What matters is whom holds legal claim to the property. In this case, the owner who holds legal claim, which would be upheld in ANY COURT IN THIS COUNTRY, is an Omaha, NE resident, and the car itself resides in a garage in Omaha.

Thoughts?

 

T'was purchased from Denver...

Here is the link to the page of the pic (yes, I am well aware that this doesn't "prove" anything with you, but, for what it's worth)

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205855&page=34

 

Chad ---

I agree with most everything you've stated, but there is key point you're missing --- and, it's really my fault for not being clearer in my comments (I was in a hurry when I posted).

When you purchase a car, new or used, from a legitimate (state licensed) car Dealer, you must pay sales tax at the time and point of purchase. If you are from out of state (a resident of any state other than the one where the purchase is made), you have the option of paying the tax in the "purchase state" and then paying the increased difference (if there is one) in your state of residence, or being issued a voucher (for "no tax collected at sale") to present in your state of residence in order to pay the full tax there when you transfer and file title (which is a good choice if your state has a lower rate than that from where you purchased the car).

If you do not choose either option, you are in violation of State(s) and Federal laws --- which is where the IRS can get involved (their jurisdiction because it's an "interstate" tax violation) to file charges on behalf of both states so that they can enforce collection of their respective taxes. This also forces an official (and complete) title transfer if you wish to be in compliance with the tax liability. If you wish to "never drive the car", fine ---- you do not have to ever register it (and pay those associated fees) in any state if you choose, but you still must title the car somewhere, and thus, pay the sales taxes ---- unless you are a licensed dealer / broker.

When buying a used car from a private individual, none of that applies ----- actually, technically, it all does ---- but, it is not possible for the state(s) or IRS to monitor and enforce violations since private parties don't have to report sales of cars to anyone.

Now, I ain't no Lawyer, and I ain't no Accountant ---- so, I may not be explaining all this perfectly correctly. But, trust me, over the years I have myself purchased several cars (new and used) from licensed Dealers out-of-state. And, every single time, I was forced to pay a sales tax (somewhere) and file a title transfer in my state of residence (for my personal cars) or in my LLC's state of registration (for company-owned cars). It is simply unavoidable........or at any rate, punishable by law, if you do not comply (and get caught).

It is true that tax laws change all the time, but this was still the case at least back in July when I last bought a car from a dealer out of state.

And, as for your Picasso......recall that I am referring only to property which is regulated to carry a title or deed --- art pieces, and many other forms of material property, are not. Although, if you purchase that "Picasso" from a licensed Auction House or Art Dealer, you will have to pay sales tax on it the same as the coffee maker you bought at WalMart . I have purchased a few pieces (unfortunately, no Picasso's, though ) and have always been taxed, with the exception of the pieces I purchased in Oregon and while I was a resident of that state ---- only because Oregon is one of the handful of states in the country which has NO state sales tax .

Your reference to Museums not paying sales tax is a bit spurious, as they, like many select institutions in the US, are TAX EXEMPT STATUS entities.....

 

I don't believe that - Ferrari of Denver only got one car, and it went to a well-known collector in-state. Or at least this is what I was told when I worked at the dealer.

For out of state purchases, sales tax is assesed at time of registration, not purchase. Hence temporary tags and driveaway permits. When I (briefly) sold cars at dealers, we liked out-of-state customers because we didn't have to charge them sales tax, thus the cars appeared less expensive. Thus you could purchase a car out of state and never pay sales tax, by virtue of never registering it. Why else would people do the Montana registrations??

However, it's unlikely there's an Enzo on MSO in Nebraska simply because there's no dealer in Nebraska. If the car was sold from Ferrari of Denver (or any dealer), MSO would be gone at point of sale, simple as that. Unless the owner of a dealer in another state happened to make his residence in Nebraska, and kept the car on MSO. The owner of Ferrari of Denver by no means lives in Nebraska, nor has an Enzo.

 

Nice parking job.

 

Waiting on response from NNO.

Finnerty, while you make a valid point on what the authorities think should happen, ddemuro is correct and the reality is, I live on the state line (see Council Bluffs) and have purchased cars from licensed dealers out of state (Nebraska and Illinois) many times, and have never, ever paid sales tax at point of sale. If I were in state, and transferred the plates, then yes, sales tax at point of sale would be valid. It makes no sense, especially in the age of worldwide auto sales, for each and every dealer to file a sales tax collected form for each and every state and / or country.

Point, my ref to a museum and a Picasso were meant to illustrate the point of ability to insure, not that which must be registered and be subject to tax.

 

Gawd I wish there were a way to clear this up and keep the owners' anonimity. Sigh...in relation to your post, I would not hesitate to say that you were lied to. A strong statement on my part yes, but it is how confident I am because I have seen it in person. Not to poke a stick here, but did you actually see the Enzo that left FOD, and meet the collector?

 

Looking at that Colorado map...two of them look pegged at Fort Morgan and Limon, or thereabouts. Wow! Another in maybe....Aspen?

And Canada, whooo boy. One appears somewhere near Chibougamau Quebec? There are hardly even roads that go out there....soooo, really?? And 3 in Ontario look like they're North of of Canada 11, of which is nearly uninhabited. I guess what I'm getting at here is, I don't believe this list, or map, at all.

 

FYI, Below was the question I asked to Derek from FOD about the Enzo.

Re: quick question

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan311
I've heard from people in Denver that one of the biggest ferrari collectors and customers of yours lives in Omaha. Is there any truth to that? Just curious. Thanks


Well, yes and no. The guy has an extensive Ferrari collection but the only time we have ever sold him a car was when he purchased an Enzo.

 

As I recall, the whole point of buying an Enzo was that you had to have owned other Ferraris before - "invite only," remember? Maybe he bought a used Enzo from the dealer?

That part is totally irrelevant now, since it appears pretty clearly that there is an Enzo in Omaha...

 

That is true, therefore Enzo purchased new, sir. If you had noticed in those pictures, there were PLENTY of other Ferraris in that garage.
F40
288GTO
TR
Mondial Cab
512BBi
328GTS

I remember the owner telling me they were peeved at Ferrari for not allowing them to be on the list for the F50, and since everybody wanted such a premium for them in the "used" market, they decided to pass. That is, as far as I am aware, the ONLY reason there is not also an F50 in those pics.

 

Response rec'd from NNO, and what is needed is serial #. I will make contact ASAP and see if they are willing to share it. May be on holiday through the 1st of Jan, though.

 

True, the one Enzo allocated to FoD did go to an individual in Colorado --- it is one of the 5 accounted for in NNO's list. However, it is also quite possible that FoD could have brokered or taken in another used car (Enzo) and then sold it out of state (e.g., Nebraska).

NNO can confirm the car and it's location without sacrificing the owner's anonymity. As for the original Enzo allocated to and sold by FoD ---- yes, I have seen the car......at FoD before it was delivered.....and, with the owner after the owner took delivery ---- so, I can attest to that one. But, again.....this does not mean that they (FoD) did not "transact" another one somehow .

 

The dots are not necessarily in precise geographic locations. As for Colorado, the actual locations are ---- (1) in Aspen, (3) in Denver / Boulder, and (1) in Fort Collins.

Several of the Canadian Enzos are known in location only to the specificity of in which Province they reside. So, the dots are simply placed generically within the Provincial borders ---- for example, the car in British Columbia resides in Vancouver, two of the cars in Alberta reside in Calgary, one of the cars in Ontario resides in Toronto, and the one in Quebec resides in Montreal.

 

Chad ----

I notice that you are new to this site (as a member, anyway) --- please allow me to provide you with a piece of useful info.

In many ways F-chat is like the rest of the internet chat / blog / forum sites ---- populated with many people who post but don't necessarily know what the hell they're talking about. However, F-chat is also a bit unique in that there are many members here who are highly credible, very knowledgeable, have extensive background and, in point of fact, are experts in various areas. Also, many members know (and have known since long before F-chat existed) one another very well outside of the "internet Ferrari community" and have solid reputations within the "real world Ferrari community".

As you spend more time on the site, you will develop a better understanding of who the "internet experts" are and who the "real experts" are. Until then, here's an advance notice on that savvy for you ---- "NNO" falls firmly into the "expert in the real world Ferrari community" category. Although, he concedes his list is not 100% complete, the data so far is 100% accurate --- so, you can surely believe his list

 

Actually, this was totally irrelevant before all the discussion and debate. The title of this thread is "Known Exotics in Iowa" --- last time I checked the map, Omaha was NOT in Iowa

The only utility of this digression is that it may lead to another "dot" on Carbon's map

BTW, the original exclusivity (namely, being invited / selected by Ferrari to do so) of being able to acquire an Enzo, which greatly restricted where the cars were "living" initially to a small chunk of geography, is gone. There are now Enzos on the used car market that are available to anyone with the resources and the desire to own one. While some areas of the country certainly have more wealthy individuals than others, it's a pretty safe bet that even a state such as North Dakota has at least one resident with the ability to spend a million dollars on a car. So, there's no reason today why an Enzo couldn't be found almost anywhere ---- except....in my garage

 

Trying to remember how it got turned. I think Enzo was mentioned, then something to the tune of "not one in Iowa" to, "but one in Omaha" which I picked up and have been carrying the ball for.

True enough point in prior post about map locations. Seeing that response, lends it credibility in my opinion.

Not to divert too far off topic here, but there is a HUGE amount of money in Omaha, Buffet notwithstanding. Here is a tidbit of what I'm talking about: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1998/1012/6208110a_print.html

Note the claim of Omaha residents with huge fortunes. And that's just the Berkshire money.

 

Indeed, there has been SERIOUS money in Omaha for a long time.

When I first arrived back to "The land of the truly ignorant where everyone has an inferiority complex", aka, Des Moines, Iowa --- I left when I was 17, and have now returned for a short time after 30 years elsewhere (trust me.....nothing has really changed in all that time) --- many residents were trying to impress me by telling me how much wealth Des Moines now had and how the city now had such a high national status level. I laughed (and still do) and gently reminded them that there was still more wealth and power on Michigan Avenue (Chicago) alone than there was in the entire state of Iowa ---- also that their nearest neighbor, Omaha, could buy and sell the entire state of Iowa a few times over. But, alas, some folks here in little ol' Des Moines just want to be "big" so bad that they've deluded themselves into believing that they actually are

 

LOL, well, continuing on that path of diversion from spotting cars....somewhat....we just stayed in Jordan Creek a couple of weeks ago on the way back from the ISU / Missouri game (my back hurt and I needed a bed). Anyway, it is fairly amusing how those that earn six figures, but are still working stiffs, consider themselves "loaded", and drive Range Rovers, Mercedes, BMW's, and so on. Now, being in that income bracket, I think I'm in a failry good position to tell them they have no idea what loaded is. Jordan Creek seems to be absolutely overrun with the type, IMO.

 

Indeed.

 

Just remembered, I saw a yellow Enzo from Calgary when ZR auto had it on an organized drive. Came across the drive as my wife, mother, and myself, went for a drive from CDA Idaho, and wanted to grab lunch in Canada, 'just to say we'd been there". Pretty cool to have this happen. Here is the link that I posted about it on L Talk YEARS ago:

http://www.*********************/vbforum/f20/some-canadian-lambo-pics-6792/

If you can't see the pics, let me know.

Edit: Why does the website link name ********* out like that??

 

Email exchange I just had with Derek at FoD to clear up where their allocation went lent this reply from him:

"Hi Chad,



Yes, there is an Enzo in Omaha. You are correct that our single allocation went to a private collector and he wishes to remain anonymous. He recently also took delivery of a 458 Italia and will also be taking delivery of his new 599 GTO by year’s end!



Take Care,

Derek



Derek M. Fennig

Ferrari Sales Manager

Ferrari of Denver......"

Still waiting to make contact with my friend on the serial #.

 

Has anyone heard about there possibly being a Ferrari 458 or a Lexus LFA in the greater DM area ? I saw and heard something beastly on Merle Hay. I saw just the back end of it as it took off. It was moving...I'm not totally sure what exactly it was. It was white and had a similar tail light layout to the LFA or 458. It was definitely a supercar. Anyone heard anything about either of these in the area ?