488 La PISTA è arrivata

Actually going by what Steve Bisel posted he appears to have given his reasons why he set his system up the way he has - to divorce the system entirely from the vehicles ECU and systems. He also said from his observation that situation did not occur in the Capristo system.

Maybe @bisel can chime in to further elaborate on this?

 

I found out that it was best not to stand directly behind the exhaust pipes while the valves are open on cold start. It gets messy...For the sake of my garage floor, I will leave the car in stock setting at the start. Lol

 

Another thing with the remotes...
On the 812, I had the Capristo remote installed about 5 months ago, and it stopped working. It’s been on the car for 600miles or so, but turns out the battery had gone low (according to my service advisor) even though the light on it was illuminating. Just a heads up. Easy fix, but I never would have guessed it being 5 months old.

 

First, I am very pleased that Secret and his techs were able to get to the source of the problem he was having. From his description, it would appear that the tech routed the connection cable too close to the exhaust components. That cable is rated for continuous operation to 105 deg C. Not enough to withstand the severe temperature of some exhaust components which could exceed 350 deg C. The connection wires used on any electrical product must be routed in a manner that avoids source of high heat. This would be no different if one were mounting a rear camera, radar detector, etc. The Forza installation directions do not suggest what routing to use. That is left up to the technician. But, I will make sure to modify the instructions with an explicit warning that cables must be routed in a manner so that they are not directly exposed to sources of high temperature.

As I stated earlier, the Capristo unit for the Pista is the same as their unit for other Ferrari's. That is, the existing connection cable to the vacuum solenoid valves is disconnected and plugged into the end connector of their controller cable. Their controller cable has another connector which then connects back to the vacuum solenoid valve. This is exactly the same layout as the Forza controllers used on other Ferrari's, e..g., 360, F430, 458, etc. The Capristo controller is then acting as a switch to open or close the circuit to the vacuum solenoid valve ... again, same as Forza. To prevent an error code when the controller opens the circuit, a dummy circuit has to be inserted in the path to provide a continuous loop that the ECU will interpret as a "good" connection to the solenoid valves. Without this circuit, the ECU may throw an error code which may result in a check engine light. The Forza controller's dummy circuit provides a resistance of approximately 450 ohms which draws very little current and will not develop much heat. This dummy circuit works very well for all other cars up to the Pista. What happens on the Pista is that the ECU appears to have a threshold range for this resistance so that the circuit draws an amount of current that fits withing the bounds of the ECU programming. I am not sure what that range is. When the Pista controller was developed, I made the decision to segregate the exhaust controller's circuitry from the car's ECU control circuitry. The dummy circuit was then removed from the logic board as it is not needed because the Forza controller manages two completely independent vacuum solenoid valves which come with the Forza Pista kit. Ultimately, I believed this to be a better solution as there would not be any possibility of interaction with the car's circuitry which could lead to problems.

Capristro has to introduce a dummy circuit into the path in order to prevent an error condition. I do not know what their circuit design is, but it must be such that their existing circuit seems to be compatible with the Pista's ECU. It is correct that their controller does indeed interact with the car's ECU circuitry. There is no way around this due to the nature of the connection to the car's existing vacuum solenoid valves. This method has the advantage of a simpler installation. And as long as there are not any problems with hooking into the car's existing control circuitry, then there is no reason to disparage this technique. After all, the Forza controllers used on prior model Ferrari's use this technique and no problems have surfaced. But, I have concluded that as new car models are introduced, the manufacturers are including more and more measures to discourage after market product installations which could jeopardize the fine tuning that new cars must have to meet emission requirements. For example, on the Ferrari F355, 360, 550 and 575M one could just easily disconnect the electrical connector at the vacuum solenoid valve with no repercussions. This changed on the F430. One could not merely disconnect the connector or else the car's ECU would generate a trouble code. I fully expect that in the next few years we will see more and more of these sorts of measures. My approach was for the Pista (and I have seen the same on the latest model Lamborghini Aventador), is that moving to an electrically segregated exhaust controller is an approach that can mitigate some the problems encountered in new cars that have these measure incorporated in the control circuits.

In conclusion, I stand behind the Forza products. Any problems and I will work very hard to resolve them or refund the purchase.

Hope my narrative is helpful.

Regards,

Steve

 

IMO I believe both sides make fair comments.

SECRET just think if the cable was put in a more appropriate place ? No issues, no extra cash ,hardship etc etc and you would have thumbs up.

Really that's all it was.

STEVE IMO he has really thought this out . I prefer the non interaction with the car s electronics. But that is me.

So SECRET there you go FIXED . Mate a few $ here and there isn't a worry the PISTA's here are nearly 1 MILLION

My 2 cents don't play with the cars electronics Ferrari makes sure even if we don't touch them that it will remind you that they are not the best in this field. Remember buy a starter and leave it in the car !!!!

Enjoy your beast mate she is beautiful, unique and yours !!

 

I think I am going to give a pass to trying to spec out cables with higher temp ratings. The cables I am using rated to 105 deg C ... continuous use ... actually will sustain temps a bit higher than that. Those cables are made by an American company, Southwire. The insulation is flexible, water proof and oil resistant. The connectors are made by AMP ... they are the same that Ferrari and many other companies use in their cars. They are very high quality and are also water proof. Add in the connectors, heat shrink connector boots and labor and those bad boys become pretty expensive very quickly. The specification for those cables is already the best you will find anywhere. On the car itself, the only place one will find electrical wires with high temperature resistance are things like thermo-couple wire or specially wrapped or shielded wires. I really cannot afford to spec the connector cables much higher and keep the costs down at the same time. Have to rely on the installer ensuring that the cables are routed in locations that do not expose them to heat sources such as turbo chargers and exhaust components.

But, I will take your suggestions to heart and ensure that statements are included in the installation documents about routing wires and locating the controller module to avoid direct radiation to high temperature heat sources.

Thank you all for your comments.

Regards,

Steve

 

With warranty being high on my mind for the time being, I went with the brand I have because my dealer sells and installs it. I figure if they’re doing it, there won’t be any issues. Fingers crossed!

 

Dealer selling and Ferrari endorsing are 2 different things. We had a Ford dealership here that the son of the dealer owner sold chips for the EUC on site and actually approached the new customers when signing. All was fine until the day there was a big problem. Suffice to say the son made a very QUICK exit.

Having said i here you but as with all guarantees , insurance , one only knows how good they are to you when there is a claim. Hopefully all goes good

 

Thanks for the further clarification Steve.

With regards to providing instructions, Ferrari techs should know from their training not to place cabling and control modules near radiating heat sources regardless of what instructions you may supply. Location of cabling, control module and valves should remain the responsibility of the tech keeping in mind their training and knowledge of the car. On this occasion there has clearly been unacceptable mistakes made by a supposed Ferrari tech. The fault associated to the fuse blowing, unable to be diagnosed, only further indicted poor skill and an obvious lack of general knowledge. Paying for the techs time to create and trouble shoot these errors is not something I would have done personally...

And agree a line needs to be draw in the sand when it comes down to providing instructions, cabling etc especially where factory trained techs are involved.

Agree it's always best to have the dealer do the work so they take ownership of any issues which may surface, particularly on a brand new car. But as Mandalay points out the dealer can only be expected to go so far when the product is aftermarket. Over here the dealers will be willing to accommodate for certain mods but they make it very clear the labor is not something that will be covered unless they are found to have erred in the install. Also reversing mods which don't meet customer expectations or which cause faults to the car are always chargeable.
I think this a fair and reasonable approach all things considering.

 

Don't know if you read the other thread with regards to the F8 Capristo unit installed. Lets say its got a CEL and boy is he peeed off. Wants to sell the car Don't get me wrong I believe he is overreacting but this is the issue with playing with OEM electronics. Frankly for me peace of mind either it will work or doesn't then ild prefer to pin valves open rather than play with electronics. Lets see how it plays out

 

I have heard that the F8 is tricky to work with.

 

Very true. I trust we have a good relationship with our service department. Keep them busy and order logs full

 

You have to consider all the companies have a different approach. This observation clearly shows the Novitec silencer to be more padded than the OEM. Reason for the lower sound on the valves closed. The Capristo doesn't even have a silencer and neither does the Tubi. The Klien does but has 2 and is the only other Inconel unit.

I wouldn't decat due to being illegal but more so because it stinks. Then you will also need an ECU upgrade
Go 200 if necessary.

 

I highly doubt that inside the silencer there is a X pipe....

 

Yes it is . But look at this guy the Caprista has given him a CEL which Caprista said it wouldn't and now he wants the sell his car.

 

Tubi does an Inconel as well. Not a fan of the design. I suppose making the valved portion softer makes sense, if you want to use it as a deterrent from the HFC or decat sound.

 

I’m told it is more of an H pipe design if you’re referring to the Novitec valved.

 

Sounds like he is looking for a reason to sell the car. There’s more you can do to make it sound great.

 

Both the OEM and Novitec. It would be great to see someone cut up their OEM unit once taken off. Any chance you obliging ?

 

Frustration can lead to many wrong decisions.

True and that's why I suggested he calm down. Rethink it. The Valves cant be pinned but they can be by passed like on the Tubi design