LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

hard to say, can't be as expensive as the 499p mod though at £4m imo

 

I’m sorry but that’s just disgusting — fat, overwrought baroque styling, including a 1930s era grille and Buck Rogers-style interior that makes a Pagani or even Spyker look good. A V-16? What racing heritage does that have except for some spectacular F1 failures in the ‘60s?

And, also, where TF are you going to use the 276 mph top speed? This is just an exercise in excess. Imagine if Ferrari built a porker like this what the comments would be?

 

OT, but just to crank up @day355 a little bit on this Friday:

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Outright it 's already faster (top speed) than the commercially available Chiron and Rimac said that there is more to come. It is also much more accelerative (0-400 in 25'' vs 32''), according to Bugatti anyway.

Why would you think that? Ferrari's extra rich clientele is constantly expanding.


Regarding the Bugatti, it' s also a hypercar but completely different to the F250, so I don't understand the comparisons. If anything, the Valkyrie should have be mentioned more often.

 

maybe not 4+
but not far of , around 3, or little less.

 

not everyone is obsessed with racing heritage in an engine

you could argue the speed of most ferraris is excessive for public roads

 

even if they make double the number planed ~730, if they build 1500 they would sell each one of them. Easily.
My concern is, 50% percent of them will not be running more that few thousand km their entire life. and the rest (very) occasionally. Just a few would actually be used. Long gone are the days of F40.
Being as rear and expensive i can't really blame future owners.
So as enthusiast I am interested.
But as a buyer I am more interested to see new limits, new technologies that will come in next decade, and that will come to the cars that are being driven, like 296 for example.
The car I can actually buy

 

I'd be shocked if the price starts with a 2

 

for sure, I think that it's a good thing that the dynamics have changed now and people can not worry about values as much
this wont apply to the hypercars though as they'll always be investments due to their rarity

 

Ok, so if not racing heritage—or historical references as the pro-V12 posters here demand—how about the fact that the narrow-V Bug engine is based on a lowly VW VR-5 or 6. How’s that for heritage?

It ultimately confirms this is just a piling on of excess with no consideration for weight, packaging or efficiency or anything else except a cash grab from the high net worth types for bragging rights—nobody can beat 16 cylinders, right?

 

I doubt that F250 will be as radical as Valkyrie, look how low Valkyrie is, basically it's road legal Le Mans LMP1 car...

 

I don't think racing heritage and historical references necessarily make a good car. I also don't think that the latest and greatest technology makes a good car. If Toyota created a V12 engine based on a camry I'd still be very interested.

We have reached a point where track performance and street enjoyment no longer really go hand in hand.

Bugatti went the route of making a car that is exciting from an engineering standpoint, at the cost of track performance, which to some of us on here, including me, is much more exciting than a crazy lap time.

If Ferrari's sole goal is to make the ultimate track weapon, so be it. That's what a lot of other people want and I understand that now. However, if they do it, it needs to be no holds barred. A car that is jack of all trades, becomes master of none.

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People expect that the F250's performance will be close to that of the Valkyrie; perhaps even better. At any rate, it will be much closer in ethos to the Valkyrie, rather than the Tourbillon.

 

I think F250 will be somewhere between T50 and Valkyrie. I'm not sure F250 will beat Aston on track with same tires but everything is possible

 

Unfortunately, unlike the both cars mentioned above, the F250 will not feature a naturally aspirated engine, and that's a big pity ...

I'm also afraid that the F250 design language will not be easy to swallow. Boxy, IKEA (clinical) styling body with NACA ducts paying tribute to the F40?- I don't know ...

And waiting for another futuristic name, that people will be eager to die for, maybe 6cilindri ; ) ?

 

I hear you and I can 't say I disagree, but it is what it is. Let 's judge the car by its performance and feeling though. At the end of the day, no one was too cross that the F40 has a TT V8, instead of a noble V12.

I wouldn't put so much trust in hearsay... Let 's wait and see how it looks.

 

Ferrari never have so big profits like this days when most of their cars have turbo, I think F250 was grate oportunity to bring back NA V8 with red line around 10 or 11k rpm. Someone say that cost of developing new engine is to big but Bugatti get uniq V16 for 250 units from Cosworth

 

Well I think the reason they went for V6 for LMH is that under the regulations (no limit on displacement or turbo) and under the parameters they want to optimize for (power, torque curve, reliability, fuel consumption) a V6 is probably the ideal situation. Maybe the one disadvantage is that it is not as efficient structurally as a V8, V10, or V12. I remember when the Valkyrie was still AMRB 001 Adrian Newey gave an interview where they were considering either a V6 Turbo but ultimately went with a V12 because they could use it as a stressed member. They thought that NVH wouldn’t be that bad because it was a V12. Oops…

How important are the LMH performance objective to the road? Well I don’t think fuel efficiency is that important. Reliability yes but Cosworth proved you make a road going engine that revs to 12k. Power, not really important. A more peaky torque curve would probably be more exciting. A 120 V6 would probably be better structurally as a V8+ would be too narrow for a wider monocoque and would need additional structure anyways.

But at the same time top Ferraris have always moved the game forwards both performance and technology wise. Let’s hope they make enough profit with the Puro and EVs that they can sink $200 million into a new V12 engine. Maybe even a V10 given its history with both Newey and Schumacher.

 

I mean, that’s the literally the whole point. The fact that you are saying this means they have done their job. The design brief was probably to make the most outlandish, excessive, unnecessary, ridiculous creation imaginable just so that 250 ultra wealthy people can say they have one. It is an immature creation that celebrates the limits of what mankind is capable of and I am 100% here for it. The world is a better place because cars like that exist.

But to your point, Ferrari would never make a car like this. It is not remotely comparable to the f250 and we should probably stop making any comparisons now. But this seems like the make logical thread to discuss it, so here we are.

 

Apparently they will use that V16 till 2035+. Its also effectively two V8s joined together. So maybe they might split it in half, or it might have originated as something else…

 

Even if it hit the performance targets, there is currently no racing connection to such an engine and we all know that Ferrari likes to make these connections.

It certainly is, but with these hybrid set-ups one can adjust according to the performance targets.

 

I don't really see much difference in terms of 'immaturity' between the Bug and the F250. Both are engineering exercises and toys aimed at wealthy clients.

The Bug targets top speed, luxury and ultimate exclusivity. The Ferrari will be a little less expensive, a little less rare and focus on lap times.

Neither car is immature and neither will have its performance limits explored by 95% of their owners.

Same, but different.

 

“Immature” to the extent that these are essentially just toys that only exist because they can. Maybe gave off the wrong connotation with my use of that word. I did not mean to suggest that these cars owners are immature in the slightest.

 

All good. Have to admit, I didn't have high hopes that the next cycle of hypercars would catch my interest. My want for the Tourbillon is high and am beginning to think Ferrari and McLaren won't disappoint either. I do now wonder if Porsche feels compelled to pivot to a hybrid solution for the Mission X. EV hypercars aren't exactly flying off the shelves....

 

They have always been heavy