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Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by Ale55andr0, Dec 24, 2019.
Buy a race car or a lotus.
Do you own a gt3 cup car or a lotus?
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I don't like the looks of the Lotus, nor that of GT3 cup cars.
But I thought it was all about weight?
See... Here is the thing... The automakers have gotten hip to people saying the things you do...
They can make them... And you still wouldn't buy it.
You don't own either despite them being what you want.
Do you own any ferrari challenge car?
No. I'd like a 488 Pista, but I'm afraid I don't have the budget for it atm.
But you didn't get my point. Ferrari have the capability to make a very good looking HALO car that can also compete with the T50 or the Valkyrie, yet they don't, which is what they should do. Be king of the hill once more.
The t50 isn't going to be us dot approved and the valkyrie is very comprimised.
Ferrari built the enzo fxx and the 599xx as well as any challenge car you would like.
Ask Aston Martin If ferrari is king of the hill... they will tell you they are.
Very true, the challenge cars fill that gap. Road cars with a 90's concept will remain compromised, because they have to deal with the regulations of today, not thirty years ago. In the end, they need to sell cars, not check all the purist's boxes who never buy them. Remember the enthusiast all screaming 'save the manuals'? It's because the majority of customers don't seem to value that aspect as much as the journalists...
Why not ?!
In what sense is it compromised ?
Those aren't road legal and they are still too heavy compared to the T50 and Valkyrie
They are in terms of brand recognition/power, but not in the sense that they build the fastest supercar out there, and that is what they should be doing.
At the time it is launched, their HALO car should obliterate any other supercar in terms of performance. I'm talking mostly in terms of track/lap times, not in terms of top speed. That has become less relevant, anything over 220 mph (350 km per hour) in enough.
Screw the regulations of today, Ferrari can bypass most of those.
They can sell their mid range cars, they have plenty of models. There's nothing preventing them from creating around 50 extreme versions of their HALO car for the road.
The T50 will not be DOT approved due to crash regulations and they are not going to homologate the car for the US sales and EPA. The run isn't big enough.
The valkarie is an extreme car. Have you looked out the windshield? THe forward visibility is... umm... different. Lets just say that. THe car is extremely tight inside. ITs like an f1 car with two side by side seats. Its cool but its extreme. And in that sense it is cool. I love that it exists.
Ferrari has not always built the fastest cars on the road. It is not part of their heritage to be the fastest. Honestly Ferrari for about 50-60 years was never to be compared to anything else. They are their own thing. Now in the modern day... that doesn't exactly work... but Ferrari has rarely represented itself as the fastest car. The 250 GTO wasn't. The Daytona wasn't. The F40 wasn't. The f50 wasn't. The Enzo wasn't. The Laferrari wasn't. The 458 was out shown by the MP4. The 355 in a straight line would get destroyed by a 911 turbo... same with a ferrari 360.
Well, to be fair they usually were the quickest amongst their competitors, but of course progress leaves all cars behind eventually. That said, I agree that Ferrari should look forward and not care about manual transmissions in 2021. I quite like the Valkyrie path; modern, extreme and pure. I can see Ferrari doing something similar. It is the natural progression of LaFerrari's philosophy.
How can you bypass regulations in the us? You can't.
I’d like to see finally realised a turbines-hybrid supercar that runs on any flammable liquid. That would be interesting and could offer great performances
Why won't the T50 be DOT approved ? I don't see any problem why it can't pass. It's made out of far superior materials than normal cars, and those things all pass those stupid safety tests.
And that's why it's cool, cause it's extreme. Nobody who buys this gives a crap about everyday usability. You buy it just so you take out on a nice road on a weekend, or to a track.
The F40 was.
The Enzo also kinda was, since it outperformed the Mercedes SLR and the Porsche Carrera GT, it's main rivals at the time it was launched.
The 458 isn't a HALO car. And even so, it was a far better car than the MP4.
Also, it's not like Ferrari don't have the technology to create the fastest car, it is the imbeciles who run the company and their marketing department that prevents them from doing so and thus depriving us of a fantastic car.
The world doesn't revolve just around the USA. They have the European, Middle East and Asian market as well.
A grilled cheese sandwich has cheese in it.
No one has claimed otherwise.
That's also why I specifically stated the US.
You mentioned getting around regulations. I replied you can't in the US. Your reply is the rest of the world exists. Yes. But... that's not what I was talking about.
Having said that... The us is the largest car market and a bit of a trend setter in the market. Although as previously stated by another poster asia is the fastest growing market and they want ipads with cars wrapped around them. They want tech... Like what the new roma has.
It's not the materials that pass the regulations.
Listen... I've worked for a manufacturer and I'm in the business. It takes a considerable sum of money... And the biggest issue is crash testing. You have to crash several cars. even just to get the dot approval for the tail light lenses for DOT is expensive. It's not insurmountable but... It's expensive for limited runs.
I think we agree on the valkyrie... And it seems like you understand what I meant by stating the car is compromised. It's not a great do it all car. It has a specific. Use. And that's cool.
The f40 was not the fastest car. The enzo wasn't the quickest or the fastest. And it certainly didn't dethrone the mclaren f1.
The laferrari is still slower than many.
And while the 458 might be a better car than an mp4. The mp4 is faster in every measurable test.
The point is that ferrari has almost never built the fastest car. People think they have but they haven't. There is so much more to a Ferrari than speed.
1. Ok, so basically you are saying that it is expensive for Murray to build many T50's that would have to be destroyed/crashed, not that the car itself can't pass those tests, right ?
2. Yes, I understood that you meant the Valkirye is not a do it all car, but who the **** cares ?! Nobody buys supercars cause they want to use them everyday.
It's like hooking up with /marrying the hottest woman in the world, you don't do that cause she can wash and cook, you do that cause she's hot and you want to bang her.
3. The F40 was the fastest car when it was launched, or at least that's what I remember. It had the highest top speed and I can't remember any other car that was better around a track. If it wasn't, who had it beat ?!?
4. The Enzo was faster than it's direct competitors, the Carrera GT and the SLR. As for the comparison with the F1, even the F40 had it beat on a track, let alone the Enzo. The difference in top speed wasn't that big either, 224 mph for the Enzo compared to 231 mph for the F1.
5. The 458 beat the MP4 on many tracks.
The car might pass. But there are many odd requirements for safety in the us. For example a locking steering column. There are many many safety regulations and lighting regulations. So it's not just crash testing but yes it is a big expense. Please understand I'm not implying the car is not safe.
Well most people who buy multi-million dollar cars don't track them. They flaunt them as a sign of wealth. Which is why the fastest cars in the world are not the most expensive cars in the world. Race cars would be the fastest and yet they are often the cheapest. A 458 challenge car is less expensive than a 458 street car. Due to a limited desirability.
250 gto is a slow car by today's standards but is one of the most expensive cars in the world.
Speed on 7 figure cars is pretty low on the list of importance. It's strange. Sure it has relevance but it's not the only thing that matters or even the most important thing.
The 959 had a high top speed than the f40 and the xj220 was also faster.
As far as the enzo is concerned the Koenigsegg was faster.
The carrera gt was actually. Very very very close in speed to the enzo. And what's funny... With a 6 speed according to enthusiasts should be worth more than an enzo. But it's not it's woth about 2 million less
The point is no one bought an enzo because it was the fastest. No one buys it today because it's fast. Hell a roma is as fast around a track. They buy it because it's an enzo and it's the best ferrari had on offer.
On average the mp4 is significantly faster. It was about 10 seconds faster than a 458 on the ring.
PS I hate the mp4.
959 did not have a higher top speed than the F40. It did not reach 200 mph. It was also much slower around a track than the F40.
The XJ220 was into 4 years after the F40.
Respectfully disagree Sir,
The Halo car should be road compatible.
Although the Valkyrie is a beautiful exercise in style, it is not compatible with road use.
Why not ?
It looks ridiculous for a start and I cannot imagine two people fit into the cabin very easily. Google Camparo T1, a car very similar in concept....
Why should 2 people fit ? If you buy that, you buy it for yourself, not for anyone else.
Didn't Max Verstappen drove the test car and said that it's too claustrophobic for the road?
Do you think Aston Martin has the financial and technical means to develop the Valkyrie for road use? I doubt it. If the project is completed the car will probably be unfinished because of the reasons mentioned above.