LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Hopefully decent. Otherwise why do it? It’s a once-in-decade car, it foreshadows technologies that will come after it into other more mundane products.

If it was me, I would want to ensure that it is not priced too highly and risk killing a good thing in a difficult financial climate. But that inevitably means I need to take good care of what money is spent on in its development. There has to be enough financial room to develop the ground-breaking elements that are necessary for the identity of this car and still be decently profitable. If haptic controls are needed to allow for that, so be it. Though I’m not that keen on them, it is not material to the success or failure of this car. A great lap time is.

Ironically, they will probably make less from the F250 than they will from the other spin-off products that will come from it. I reckon they made more out of SP3 than they did out of LaFerrari. With SP3, a car for the ‘purists’ with a mid mounted V12 and a carbon tub, all the chassis costs were already accounted for.

As for GMA, they will be making small or even no margin on the T50. Far too much cost to amortise over too small a volume. And that means that GMA is still in its early and vulnerable stage. It’s not a path 2024 Ferrari would want to or could pursue. As I said before, these two are worlds apart, different automotive universes. Celebrate that both are what they are.

 

Did I miss something? Porsche has teased the Mission X - an EV?! I’m not aware of anything else. If you’re talking about 918 v LaFerrari, it is already established that the LaF has done better than the 918 and is a more desirable car. Both are brilliant in my book, but I wouldn’t rather have a 918 at their respective original retail prices.

The added weight over the Enzo has not diminished the appeal of the LaFerrari in the market. Looks like LaF will be the only Ferrari hyper with V12 and DCT (Enzo’s biggest weakness in my opinion).

 

The LaFerrari Aperta was indeed available in 5 colors only. The regular coupe was available in any color

 

Really ? Porsches halo ‘range’….so your comparing what with the 288/F40/F50/Enzo/Laf ? Possibly the 959 and 918… hardly apples with apples …

 

Bonsoir my French friend … long time …

 

Profit margin was awful on the t50’s because the despoits were taken early on and the car took awhile to make, Murray himself said everyone got a good deal.

 

I'm always with loads of well informed car guys with all levels of means, and they mostly don't give a sh** about Ferrari's, most are track day guys, car technicians or guys that use their cars very hard to be fair . But to say a "Ferrari Hyper" car is above all other offerings is just not true, that's only true to you ( and me). In fact i find it's really just within us real Tifosi and fashion brand buyers these day's that anyone really has any care for Ferrari..

 

Yep.. And every Ferrari is hugely inflated and made for profiteering.

 

I dont believe any t50 owner is going to be jealous of not getting a f250

and yes sure, some will pile on the miles but a vast majority - just look at every car for sale or that has been sold of the hypercars will barely be driven

 

I understand where your coming from but with all due respect , I too spend time with lots of different car guys of all different means ( including ferrari one-offs etc and Le Mans winners etc ) - racers of the Highest Levels and collectors from small to 250 GTO owners - my point being , if like you and I , you’re a Ferrari guy , then IT IS the best and final word in HyperCars … I agree , I live and enjoy the Echo- box of Ferrari Fanatics/Tifosi , and by definition that makes us hardwired to Ferrari HyperCars as THE HyperCar- possibly delusional but certainly heartfelt!

 

I didn’t say that T50 owners would be jealous of F250 owners - on the contrary , they likely have one too … I disagree re driving miles , most will drive to some extent …hopefully !!

 

Really ?? Then don’t buy!! Hugely inflated vis a vis what ? Ferrari make insane amounts of money per vehicle compared to All other car manufacturers - great ! So what’s wrong with that and making a large profit …if you buy into the Lifestyle then you buy into it … I see we agree they are Fab at what they do , I just think fair play to them !! Bravo !!

 

I guess those fan things don’t come cheap.

I would really like to see how many T50 owners will track their precious T50s, what with the manual gearbox, who knows what kind of maintenance schedule a Cosworth will require, not to mention the state-of-the-art Fan ‘system’.

Just imagine what would be said here if Ferrari regurgitated a 30-year old body design with token 70s era tech, just to make a tenuous link to F1.

 

Ferrari Hyper cars, and even the specials are worth so much for a reason, the brand has a following like no other, it's safe money ( like Rolex)..Being safe catches up with you eventually. But for me, for the most part, it's become more of a brand/label than a cutting edge engineering company. Ferrari should be loosing millions on every F250 just to make it the king, not trying to make millions on ever car...... Just like they should be loosing billions on the F1 team to dominate again. It all pays off in the end..

 

Open minded to your viewpoint , possibly coming from a hearty place , but disagree ….

 

How about they just make the cars better? How about they make them best in class in every area?

You have taken modern Ferrari's on track or driven them hard for many days? Their engines over heat, their brakes over heat, their suspension fail etc etc, I could go on and on! They are just not built for the purpose they are promised / sold to be.

 

Fair..

But we can agree, we both want Ferrari to be the kings on the road and to dominate in the F1 right?

Neither will happen under this 'Ferrari'. The people running Ferrari now are not even true racers or maybe even car guys!

 

I’ve done about half the amount of track miles in Ferrari as I have in Porsche. I’ve never experienced what you say. They’re pretty robust. So why would I usually choose Porsche? It’s just a lot cheaper that’s all. There is no doubt there is a feeling that Porsches are more robust, which helps your feeling on track. But my experience has not borne that out. I mentioned a while ago I recently drove 500 miles to spa, did a full track day at decent pace, then drove 500 miles straight home again. The car felt better after the workout and benefitted from stretching its legs. Not a single issue or missed beat. It is a 9 year old Speciale with 15k on the clock. Maybe there are Ferraris that have given problems, but there are certainly Porsches that have done that, though mine have all been ok.

 

Have I taken modern Ferraris on track and driven them hard for many days ????! Really ?! No , I haven’t , but I have driven modern Ferraris for many laps around tracks in Europe , hard , road cars and challenge cars .. Well hard for me as I’m a below average track driver …They are not sold as that - imho …. Let’s not posture in messaging . You have your thoughts on Ferrari and the forthcoming F250 , I have mine . That’s good and as it should be .
Good for you re your thoughts … I totally take the other viewpoint but am not averse to other cars being faster , more ‘advanced ‘, a better ‘ring lap time - I don’t care about those . Makes me wrong , deluded or a sycophant ?! No , makes me a typical Ferrari Fanboy who over approaching 3 decades of ownership has become a giddy FanMan . I like that . A lot . Nite nite and ciao from the UK ….

 

No it doesn’t. Lose big money up front for some theoretical benefit many years from now? No, it doesn’t work at all. Sometimes that is the only choice you have - GMA for example - but if you have a choice, and Ferrari do, don’t choose that. Really don’t.

 

My Speciale has 27k on the clock now ( my Pista has 13k). Both needed and have lots mods and developments to make them semi fun fast road / track day cars. From the factory they were awful on track (understeer).

To be fair my GT Porsches have also been setup by Manthey for aggressive road and track work.

But, i can blast around all day in the Porsche GT's. Both the 992 GT3 RS and Cayman 4RS are very consistent on tires, brakes and temps. Both Ferrari's need serious rests after 10 to 15 mins. Brakes are smoking, tires are like chewing gum and a few dash lights are not uncommon..

At the Ring i honestly think my Ferrari's are terrible, they are really not that fun. They feel unresolved and out of their depth compared to my GT Porsches,.. I always get hunted and humbled by much "lesser cars" towards the last quarter of the track.

Has the F250 been pounding the ring?

 

As a result they are making heavy, boring, undeveloped, unimaginative, over priced cars ( for the real engineering)..

Remember when we were all in the 812 Comp thred chanting about a 10'00rpm+ engine... 9'500rpm!

GMA and Cossie have 12'100rpm.... Frist time the engine was developed and will be sold...

You think Ferrari can't do that? They are taking the piss guys.

 

There’s no doubt Porsche’s commitment to the ring and history in endurance racing - which despite Ferrari’s own illustrious history in that field, most would agree Porsche has had an unmatched reputation over the years - has generated a car that is brilliant for hard track use. Also the fact that the 911 platform is relatively simple, cheap to use and very familiar to both manufacturer and user, allows them to focus on this element.

Ferrari is a different animal. It has to be more exotic, more dramatic, more Italian! It has to be a much more ebullient vehicle but also one which is road usable. Of course Ferrari does also have an illustrious racing pedigree but its products have developed into the sort of thing that isn’t too cost-effective or practical to use on the track. You clearly use Ferraris heavily on track but you’re not the norm.

Ferraris v Porsche are fast and fun in general 90% road 10% track use, stock for stock. When you change them, other than geometry, it starts to become something it was not really intended to be. A 488 Challenge is a brilliant car, a 488 is too but it’s much more designed as a road spec vehicle, the environment most are used on. The challenge will take the punishment on track, the 488 is great on track but as you say, needs cooling every 20-25 minutes. The 911s need that too unless you want a big consumables bill.

Maybe you’re a more serious track day guy and sounds like you do more and are looking for faster laps. In which case, a dedicated track day car should be better. Maybe a modded GT3 RS is that, or one of the road legal Radical cars. I still love the standard Pista on track, our standard Speciale was great at Spa - no excessive understeer, given it was a trackday and I was managing 2.53/4 pace - the SF90 was faster at Silverstone than our GT2 RS by a couple of seconds in my hands (mid 2.20’s - not the fastest pace but decent and driven with some thought about cost) and the brakes had no fade or smoking, felt very strong. All our cars we keep stock except for geometry but still mostly stock. They have to work on road because road trips are where we use them most, except GT3 RS. Maybe you’re getting durability issues because your pace is asking the car to do something it’s not really tuned for? What do you consider a reasonable pace to push a standard road car, for say, Silverstone? For me, there comes a point where the risk of binning a £300k car spoils the enjoyment significantly.

Our GT3 RS has recently arrived and I’ll use that now. Maybe I’ll get Manthey to take a look at it more than a basic alignment but I’ll try it stock first.

As for F250, it needs to be quick on track but there will be very few who pound around a track with it for days on end - other than Rafaele. It has to be quick on track and good on the road. To be good on the road may need some compromise. The GT4 RS is a good case in point. A much less sharp front than the 3 RS but makes it brilliant on the road. I love ours, it’s one of the best fast road cars at any price.

 

Don’t agree with the first paragraph, did Ferrari ever say they would make 10k rpm is my response to the second paragraph and as for the third…. Let’s see how long the 12k Cosworth engine lasts shall we. And what in use problems and costs develop.

I don’t think we’re ever going to agree, which I’m happy with. Hope you are too.

 

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