LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

The XX program is meant to be exclusive while it has to limited to certain number of cars due to track as well as staff limitations. Ferrari will most likely protect the value of existing XX cars by selling a new XX at a price close to the value of previous version. The 499PM was priced near the selling price of an FXXK EVO last year for example. Currently there are some folks offering extremely high prices for existing XX cars because they think by owning one it will get them a F250 allocation.


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I think it will be revealed to the world on October 19 at the World Finals at Imola. Customers who have been allocated one will be seeing the car in small showings during the two weeks leading up to the 19th.


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I agree, the "black band" will not be part of Ferrari styling into the future, it is particular to the design of the European delivered Daytonas, and now the 12 Cilindri, as it pays tribute to this specific car. Not sure why everyone thinks it is a new thruline in design language for Ferrari, I guess some people are just not familiar with vintage Ferrari's.

Here, maybe this will help:

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As you know, Ferrari's only objective is to take as much money as possible from customers, and in this sense the XX program also does the job, so in the future you expect nothing but a price increase in all areas. You have to milk the cow as much as possible...

 

Do the maths though… Say it costs £2m to build a F250 XX and you sell 30 units for £5m, against simply stripping out a F250 and making it for £1m to sell 300 at £2m. You make £90m from the XX programme and another £300m profit out of this one, assuming there was the market for it. Even at £1.5m selling price you make more for this simple version, if there is the market for it. Maybe there isn’t. But the future for anyone who wants to know what a car like this can do is to find out at the track.

Currently though, the XX programme is designed to fill a different brief - super performance, super exclusive, super expensive and provides a great spectacle at various racetracks and Ferrari events around the world. My idea is to take a standard car, take out all the unnecessary bits (no need for a separate and expensive XX design, development and production programme for this car) and supply it to customers who want a super track car for premium track days under their own management and transport. The XX programme still exists as is and would still be the last word in bespoke Ferrari track experience, this would be an additional programme. The ‘GTX’ programme for example. The XX Stradale is not this, since ‘GTX’ would be lighter, not road legal and sit above XX Stradale in price. Given the F250 road car already amortised the cost, this would be highly profitable. The key is that the price has to be lower than F250 and the car would not be roadgoing. It would also use slicks, cheaper brakes and not have to be as nicely finished inside and out.

I guess there is either not the market or the production capacity for it, otherwise I think the basic maths probably says they would have done it. Or maybe it’s just a stupid idea.

 

It could also be that owners of a hypercar, like the 250, may not feel happy to pay the high price of their new hypercar and then have a similar performance version, like a 250 GTX, available for less. With a clear reference that it is effectively the same car.

Of course, it's for a different setting. But it could detract from the feeling that as a 250 hypercar/megacar owner, you own the best. One could feel used that they subsidized an another group of buyers driving experience. For less money, thus making them feel used and no longer in such a small, special, exclusive group.

Then, it becomes a business model discussion based on customer life strategy discussion for the whole company. Because the top customers might change their behavior. And you will start to have a new types of customers who are very transactional as they dont feel “family” and loyalty. Which is their competitors key mistake and lack of understanding.

 

Based on running the same race cars on the same track with different tires as racers do every day. I am referring to the difference in performance in my Ferrari Challenge cars, my GT3 cars and my super cars on track.

Go to any race and ask the drivers which tire they prefer between Hankook, Pirelli and Michelin. The tire you run is critically important. The Michelins are more consistently good for a longer period of time than the Pirelli. Both are much better than the Hankook.

At Nurburgring in July the McLaren series drivers stuck on Hankook had nothing nice to say about them.

I’m not sure you are even arguing about current racing series tires. They are all run every day at Thermal and each race car driver could tell you their opinion. I’m saying the strong consensus is Michelin over Pirelli over Hankook.

 

I think Ferrari would struggle to sell 300 track-only cars for £2m a piece, no matter how good they are. The market is not there and resale would be a nightmare. Just my opinion of course



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The car cost is not the issue its the on going cost to race and maintain the car/s. Then consumable cost of racing out side your local region like Transport, accommodation etc.

 

In my anecdotal experience with FC's 488C Evo, the Michelins lasted way more heat cycles and laps during testing than the Pirellis. The rest of my team had the same experience. Pirelli did make a good rain tire for race situations, though. But we usually avoided being on the track during rain. So we put Michelins on.

 

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Still well off. Its all in the detail and still hidden parts

 

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correct, he was angry that budget restrictions were going to make the car too heavy although by standards of other hypercars the end product is still lightweight

there will also be road legal versions of the RB17 made by LM which imo will probably be the fastest road legal track car for 1-2 decades

 

I think many are missing the point that the net wealth people that are buying the halo cars aren’t necessarily doing so for metrics, cylinders, timesheets or tradition. They’re doing so because they can, and so they can say they did.

As for me, I just want it to look the part. And it will…

 

The GTCompetizone program and the 488 GT3 Modificado would fill this market niche. Many believe there be a similar M version of the 296 which may be exactly the target you are defining.


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As it happens, I discovered today that Maserati has just done something similar, based on the MC20 which has a carbon shell. I think that’s what would necessitate Ferrari using either an F250 shell or even an old LaF shell. The distance from the F250 Road car in price could be solely due to a lower specification - cheaper consumables, not the last word in sophistication but appropriate for the track, plus the fact it would have a race car type basic finish.

Maybe it doesn’t work but the Maserati looks good! 700+ hp, no hybrid, carbon shell, £0.75m

 

65 cars only I think…


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The car was at Quail and I spent some time studying it. Looked pretty good. Had quick attach panels. CF is very expensive though but in some cases can be repaired. Ferrari has removed some of CF and is using more plastic on the vulnerable bits on their latest challenge car. Seems like it is a direct competition to the Ferrari Challenge series., while the Ferrari challenge car cost a lot less.


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Way to expensive, I do not think they will sell many.

 

I think that most of us can agree that the SP3 is not a “Hypercar” simply because it is sort of based on the LaFerrari, but also it isn’t totally because it has significantly less power despite being more than 5 years newer soooo … yeah it’s not a Hypercar.

The term Hypercar ( as opposed to Supercar ) is reserved for a manufacturer’s once-in-a-decade technological tour de force paragon of all of its best and state-of-the-art engineering and design capabilities. La Ferrari, McLaren P1, Aston Martin Valkyrie etc.

The F250 is this. The F250 is a Hypercar. The SP3 is not. And if you think about it … any of the Icona series … CAN’T be a Hypercar by the true definition. This is not really even debatable.

 

Agreed, the Icona series to me are marks of design excellence, and while they have beautiful power plants, they're not really pushing any huge envelopes or presenting anything cutting edge. They to me are all super cars, however insanely beautiful supercars, but supercars, not hypercars. Fun question to debate... does the term hypercar fall out with age to supercar as those models are superseded, or is that a lifetime classification for those models designated as such?

 

My dear mate, George, which was the fastest tyre over a single lap?

 

As you know, immediate grip is just one of the aspect for people doing tracks activities.
In a former professional life I was selling tyres for motorbikes for both road and track use.
Indeed Pirelli tyres offered unmatched grip for several laps but always lacked durability, polyvalence and adaptability compared with Michelins.
Technically this is far easier to design a grippy tyre which last few hundred kilometers compared with a real polyvalent tyre.
This is about company philosophy ( and technical competence).
Just remember 2005 Formula One season and the painful comparison between Bridgestone and Michelin..

 

How does this perspective fit with say a manufacturer like McLaren. There Ultimate Series features cars they brand and price as “hypercars” yet were released within a few years of each other. Case in point the Senna, Speedtail and Elva. Are those supercars then?

At £2m+ sharing a platform with a Laferrai, and have almost 900hp. There is no way a SP3 can be called a Supercar. The Monza maybe as it is based on a regular production. Aluminium chassis 812 but the SP3 is a hypercar. I can’t really see how that is debatable, respectfully.