LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Tell them to invest in a new V12 hybrid instead of wasting money on the new appliance factory...

 

I am sure they will invest in a new V12 sooner than later ..

 

I will do that!
It‘s not that i wouldn‘t like a V12. But for me it would fit better in a new Icona Series car. For racing hybridized and heavily turboed V6 seem to be the way to go.

Let‘s wait and see. Maybe we get a new V12 someday. I guess Bugatti has surprised many in the industry with there decision and they will all look very closely how it works out for them.

 

Not only Bugatti, but also Lambo and their latest powertrain offerings (new hybrid V12 and 10k redline V8).

 

Exactly what John Elkann learned from his mentor Sergio Marchionne, the beancounter.

Marcel Massini

 

How can you say that without knowing how an all-new, modern, hybrid and more compact V12 Ferrari would perform?

The brilliant F140 is 22 years old.

An all-new V12 Ferrari, made from a blank sheet of paper, more compact, hybrid, would easily surpass this V6TT in every imaginable way: performance, simplicity, machinery, emotion, durability, ...

And, if it were around 4.0L, it could be added to the entire line, with the appropriate adjustments for each model, including some hybrid models, and others not.

 

Absolutely not. The McLaren F1 engine is basically a twin M3 E36 S50B30 engine (I mean the real euro one, not the american M330i - How it should have been called)

This high revolving engine with individual throttle has nothing to do with the standart BMW in line 6 found is regular bimmers you are referring to...

Concerning the P1 I don't have the requered knowledge but I highly doubt your statement

 

no matter how much I dislike V6 in F80 I think discussing more about V12 in this thread is waste of time

 

If the V6 produces enough power, you simply add weight by adding cylinders and you lose space for aerodynamics because it gets bigger.

But again: I really like V12s.

 

However, for the V6 to come close to the power and torque of a V12 of the same age, it needs to be suffocated with strong turbocharging, which increases the number of components, therefore more weight, complexity and occurrence of problems in the short, medium and long term, and the decrease in emotion, sound, and collectibility.

 

Would be interesting to know how much lighter the V6 is vs the V12 when you include the weight of the turbos, intercoolers, plumbing etc.. Also, how much would an all new, small displacement NA V12 weigh in comparison? I think packaging (length) would be the main compromise - especially how it may impact the shape of the underbody. The W1 engine is angled by 3 degrees to accommodate underbody aero optimization.

 

Last time I thought a turbo V6 was cool was when I saw a 3000gt VR4 as a teenager during my tuner days.

 

My point is they are not ground up, bespoke in house engines, built and designed by the make on the badge, yet they are still great engines.

It was said more in sarcasm than matter of fact to emphasise my point. You can be cynical about even the most revered cars rather that judging them by sum of all their respective parts. The little V6 has proven itself in formulas, let’s see what it can do when it is free of restrictions.

 

I thought this turbo V6–120 deg., hot-V like F250–was very cool and sounded awesome.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Two times WCC either !

 

It’s true:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features/the-complex-history-of-mclaren-s-m840t-v8

 

It was confirm directly to me in The Mac forum that it was in fact dry

 

Some say 1500kg, others 1700kg…
Which one is it??

 

All data will be finalized and made Public by Ferrari on the 17th

 

Normally its on a Facebook or Instagram page

 

Normally its on a Facebook or Instagram page

 

I find it strange if people think that 296 V6 120° based engine would not be worthy of a top end model. It is a perfect engine from the efficiency point of view and its wider V-angle makes it also a better configuration than their F1 V6 90° engine.

Also, from the outset the F163 engine was designed for high thermal loads with thick cylinder walls (20.0 mm). In contrast, McLaren Artura's V6 has thin walls (7.0 mm) and probably needs a completely new block if it wants to compete with Ferrari.

See article with tech details for 296 and Artura V6 engines:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39187844/ferrari-mclaren-120-degree-v-6/

I don't know if they are using 296 or 499P block for F250, but would not be surprised either way.

 

Yeah, people will complain if the design of the car is ugly. That supposed small 4.0L V12 will still be assisted by electric motors IF Ferrari where to use it in their halo car. It will still be hybrid but will have that soulful sound and character compared to that 296 V6 in it. In terms of being stressed-member engine, the engineers can do something about it. I mean if GMA team can produce an extremely compact and light platform why can't Ferrari engineers do it as well. Do they have manpower restrictions? Budget restrictions? Knowledge restrictions? or just Elkann's ideas? It seems that Ferrari is framing the long time fans to not question them on their excuses on why the car turned out to be heavy even though it ended up using a V6.

Look the F80 is bound to be released in a few days time I already aired my complaints about it(the engine used for it and the possible design language) but I think the V12 vs V6 talk should be in a new thread, "Should a new V12 should be created or not"?

I am just waiting for its release and how would it look like. We all know that it will be fast and heavy, maybe more like the 918 Spyder formula but with ****loads of aero. I also want to see how would it compare to W1 design-wise, as of now I am pretty distracted about how that W1 design. It was released a few days ago but the more I see it the more I find the design funny. Funny enough that I think it was drawn by a kid that loves those fast and furious movies .

 

I was at the F250 event last night. Perfectly done by Ferrari, who know exactly how to pitch. We saw the new e-factory and there was a statement made about how they see the future. The e-factory is not for EVs specifically. It is a flexible facility that can make whatever they want. They couldn’t have been clearer last night; “the customer will decide what technology he wants, now and in the future - pure petrol, hybrid or full EV. It’s up to you. We made the investment and we can do whatever the market dictates”.

I don’t want to say too much about the car (spoils the surprise elements which will be revealed on the 17th) but some details are already on this thread. 0-200 is 5.75 and Fiorano time is 1:15.3, probably with P zero trofeo tyres which both presentation cars were equipped with. They stressed that this is a car that shows the extent of their race learnings adapted for the road but it is firmly a road car and usable. Sitting inside feels incredible and hearing the tech presentation gave the strong feeling that this is fully thought through and real effort has been made. I don’t think it will be heavy. Should be a little lighter than the LaF is my guess. The engine is based around 499P and the naked car showed what an impressive job this looks to be.

The camouflaged mules are it. You are seeing the car. And it looks amazing. As others have said, quite square. Think Enzo more than LaFerrari. But really its neither. It’s fresh, fully function-led but still imposing and to my eyes beautiful in a race-car way rather than a 1960’s curves way. Maybe some won’t like it but it’s distinctive, fresh, will look incredible on the road when seen alongside other cars and is a far cry from the W1, which looks like a too-obvious extension of a 10-years-old design theme from the more beautiful P1. F250 is original. Ferrari on top of their game. All Ferraris seem to be controversial these days. My view is people gripe and worry too much. Take it for what it is. It’s a technical tour de force and really rather wonderful. What a privilege, thank you Ferrari.

 

Could you provide any hints of the name?