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LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by Ale55andr0, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Veteran
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    Other than bragging rights, how does one exploit 1,000 hp unless on the track? In Virginia, they can throw the cuffs on you if you exceed 80mph . . .
     
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  3. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It would be very cool if they made a light NA V12, but I'll believe it when I see it. More likely it will be full of bleeding edge high tech like the LaF.
     
  4. Therry

    Therry Karting

    May 26, 2010
    101
    I think that Ferrari release how great idea is Aston Martin Valkyrie
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  5. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    122

    for a hypothetical hypercar in 2022 or so, 900hp sound so poor... not to mention that having less power than the progenitor (Laferrari, 963hp) and/or than a lower cathegory model (SF90 stradale) is a joke
     
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  6. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    6,084
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    Unlikely. Even the extreme Valkyrie is hybridised and Ferrari has been following F1 trends for their hypercars.


    I guess you have driven it. Totally over-rated IMHO and just a byproduct of a racing programme that never materialised. There is a reason that they went N/A V12 afterwards.


    According to all reports Ferrari is not interested in the new WEC rules.


    At this point everything we are commenting on here are just rumours and conjecture, so there is no reason for anyone to get excited.
     
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  8. Interceptor

    Interceptor Karting

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    #31 Interceptor, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    i not believe that the LaFerrari successor will be less engine power. Ferrari will solve it.

    Sure? Still have 3 years to decision. Ferrari is always testing something.

    I dont understand this diffusor design.
     
  9. Therry

    Therry Karting

    May 26, 2010
    101
    light car will brake in shorter distance, this car will be track time killer
     
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  10. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
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    Hockenheim, Germany
    In this day and age things are quite different than they used to be. I think the recent car releases very much proved Ferrari´s intention to be less predictable. The number of model lines in each segment is growing so why should this trend stop with the hyper cars? McLaren extended their ultimate series to 3 models. So it might be well possible that LaFerrari isn´t to get only one but several successors with different focuses but all within the hyper car segment.
     
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  11. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    122


    I agree, but that doesn't mean that you can't also have a massive amount of power, try to imagine:

    -compact car (not bigger than a 488), full carbon chassis (frame and body), under 1200kilos

    -brand new V12 6.75 liter (result of same unit-displacement of 458 Italia plus... four extra cylinders :D) with new Ferrari's patented electric-turbo announced some time ago: zero lag, way more power than traditional one

    -about 1500hp


    ...that is what I would call "hypercar" in 2020! :D
    It's not even so exaggerated if you consider that similar cars already exist...(koenigsegg) but with Ferrari style, handling and technology it would be really something out of the world! A truly legendary car...Ferrari F-70 "Leggenda" sound good to me :p
    Ok ok, I'm going back to planet earth but it was nice dreaming a bit :D
     
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  13. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    V12 6.75 l biturbo would be a huge engine with massive cooling constraints.
    You can forget a 1200 kgs car with this kind of engine
    I am not dreaming anymore about horsepower ( I'm 46 years old now)
    I am sure Ferrari will build something special ..
     
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  14. EmreT

    EmreT Rookie

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    A 1000 hp V12 with 10k max rpm and 1200-1300 kg gross weight would rule the game for sure. No need for a 2000 hp quad-turbo complexity.
     
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  15. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    What matters most to Ferrari, now, in their hypercar development:

    Power? Nope. Ferrari knows how to make plenty of horsepower, and they don't feel like they need to post the highest power numbers among the competition.
    Weight? Nope. Sure, lightweight is a good thing ... but this doesn't equate to the "leading edge" that Ferrari now seeks.
    Chassis dynamics? Nope. Sure, always searching for the best way to sense if a tire is on the verge of slip, and the best way to compensate. But this doesn't drive the development.

    The answer, sadly, is: carbon emissions

    Hypercars with batteries are here to stay.
     
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  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    Ferrari should not build another "supercar"/"hypercar". The hypercar market is saturated. They should take a break. Just build a car and don't put a label on it. Let the car speak for itself.

    Supercars are getting boring. Everybody who makes cars has one in the line up. And they all do exactly the same thing. It's like groundhog day, everyday.
     
  17. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    122

    The hybrid 6.3l v12 laferrari weighs approx (dry) 1255kg with kers, batteries and dedicated cooling system over the "standard" combustion engine radiator system...

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    So a 6.75l non hybrid (!) doesn't change so much the game: basically, little bigger cylinders. A single turbocharger, intercooler and collector doesn't weigh enough to compensate so negatively compared all hybrid stuff.... So, at the end, a 6.75l v12 non hybrid turbo around 1200-1250 kg is very possible imho
     
  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    The Laferrari hybrid system weights 160 kgs approximately ( including batteries)
    Why adding a turbo to a sublime NA V12 ?
    It doesn't make any sense to me.
    Ferrari for sure won't go this way.
    By far the lightest option is a NA V12 without hybridization or turbocharging.
     
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  19. Therry

    Therry Karting

    May 26, 2010
    101
    Ferrari should build this car, because nowadays every car with NA engine is worth to build

    Today most of sport cars have turbo engine with V8 around 4 liters or V6 around 3 liters, it's getting boring :D I'm very happy that Ferrari plan to build hypercar with big V12 :D
     
  20. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    122

    so I'm right after all: a turbocharger and relative hardware (intecooler, collectos etc) will never worth additional 160kilos!

    Because, as I already said ~900hp for a 2022 (or even after) hypercar sound so weak, even putting the low weight factor on the table. And, as I already said (again :D) a brand new v12 n/a will lost is magic in any case: new laws about spl (sound pressure level) and emissions will cut off his voice...you can forget the old scream. So, given that it will born already "sacrificed", it's worth focusing on power rather than a surrogate that try to sound good with a muzzle in the mouth and a dB-limit decided by a law..
     
  21. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari have already said they think a turbo V12 is a bad idea. They will never make one. It will be big displacement and naturally aspirated, in a light car, from what we know.

    The HP numbers don't mean as much as the performance numbers. If the Ferrari hypercar beats the rest around a track, which it will, that is what matters most.
     
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  22. George330

    George330 Formula 3

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    Agree...if the car is 1255 kg with 160kg batteries, make a V12 with 850hp, no batteries and 1100 kg weight...I would love to own such a car... And it doesn’t have to be that expensive either...They can probably offer it just above 1m and there would be tons of demand


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  23. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    At this point Ferrari has to offer something really extreme and expensive. It cannot be seen to fall behind in the performance, technology and value stakes.
     
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  24. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    #46 DeSoto, Jan 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
    But we´re talking about LaFerrari replacement. It MUST have more power and be more expensive than the previous one. If not, what´s the point. What you describe could be a 812 replacement, in the case that they decided to go back to mid engine, but I think that market is already covered with the SF90.

    What I´d love to do for a LF replacement: build something like the Aston Martin Valkyrie but with doors (this is a car for gentlemen, not barbarians). Stick two Formula 1 1.6 V6 together. You end up with a V12, two turbos and hybrid stuff, well above 1000 hp and 3.2 liters: that´s an unitary displacement of 266. Well, let´s round it to 250. Call it Duecentocinquanta. Build 250 at an absurd price. Voilá!
     
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  25. Therry

    Therry Karting

    May 26, 2010
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    #47 Therry, Jan 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
    it is possible that weight with V12 engine can be 999kg or less for road legal Ferrari?
     
  26. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    If we could daydream, I wouldn't care for today's F1 engines. A 12,000 RPM N/A V12 with some 1200 CV and a hybrid system (at the rear wheels) with a total output of 1500-1600 CV, for some 1500 kilos, with F1/WEC level aero and engineering. Alternatively, a tandem 2-seater, copy of an F1 car, with a cockpit canopy and enclosed wheel arches.
     
  27. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
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    They cannot do a 812 replacement with what I describe. The car would need to have a carbon tub and be fairly advanced to weigh 1100kg...I can’t see how Ferrari would sell that for anywhere close to what a 812 or even a SF90 costs.
    I am personally tired of the horsepower and price race...if Ferrari want to launch a LaF replacement that costs 3 million and will be bought as a display object by people who will not drive it like it was meant to be driven so be it.
    I would love a modern F40 or even F50. Light, driver-focused, pure. I guess if Ferrari dont want to do it, the answer is to buy an F50!

    As for the Valkyrie, I have some friends who ordered it and they are still trying to swallow the cost that is coming up to 3 million pounds by now, once the options have been specced. None of them are seriously considering driving these cars more than once a year and certainly not on the track.

    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  28. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,498
    Personally I agree. These are road cars and 1000 hp are useless on the road. I´d prefer to have 1/4 of that power in a smaller car, something that could be used in the mountains and country roads rather than only at a track. An Alfa 4C with a V6 engine would be an interesting Ferrari; something like a Dino SP or a 212 Montagna. It´s good that Maserati is building that car.

    BUT, and it´s a big BUT, if you want to sell a car for 200k, 300k or more, and that is what Ferrari sells, you need to sell not only a nice car but spectacular looks and numbers too.
     
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