LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

To be honest, my humble opinion is that Ferrari (or any other major supercar manufacturer for that matter) could have built something the T50 (sans the fan), but this is not what these companies want to pursuit, since it does not represent their current ethos. Ferrari did that 30 years ago, with the F50. Times moves on...

 

I still think the T50 is something different to F50. The lightweight build, for a car 30 years newer to be so much lighter, is to a much more extreme level. I don’t think Ferrari have ever built a circa 650 bhp, V12 road car with less than a tonne dry weight. F50 was almost 250kg more in 1990! Could Ferrari have done that in 2024? Perhaps it’s possible but I wouldn’t be certain at all.

 

I agree with you and @REALZEUS completely and I have a T33 coming (my only non Ferrari vehicle). The GMA design philosophy is noteworthy but optimized around being a “tactical air fighter” instead of “air dominance” like an F-35. The extreme low weight allows them to use relatively lower (600 hp order of magnitude) hp range in the T33/T50. That also lets them use the Cosworth small displacement V12 with a stick. The powertrain strength they have is in the RPM/seconds. Their engine spins up at 27K rpm gained in 1 second. That brings the performance up. Similar to what latency is in Internet performance as opposed to bandwidth. So it’s this instant available torque that will be similar to an electric motor torque production. That lets them get away with relatively lower HP for anything needing short throttle release (like in turns). But it doesn’t have the mega power of the SF90 or a LaF or any of the 2010 to current cars. And it certainly won’t match an F80. But this powertrain advantage is coming from Cosworth. The weight and the handling are from GM.

The GMA cars are also all totally stripped out internally. They have no remote amount of luxury that most Ferrari owners want today. They are also able to get around sound and pollution requirements because of their low production volume. So it will have a great exhaust note because they do not have to put a gas particulate filter in the exhaust stream. Ferrari can’t do this because they ship >10,000 units. GMA is roughly 100 units/year. So they are in a fun niche.

Also, history shows us the sustainability of companies that make 100 units per year. It is quite difficult. Pagani is in the group. But the others skim on the thin ice of bankruptcy. Pagani has to depend on MBZ engines.

Not to be morbid, but one day, GMA will not have GM any longer. At that point GMA will not be at the scale, model, brand, or race involvement at that point to have a future like Ferrari did after EF passed away. At that point, my conclusion is that GMA would make good acquisition for a company like McLaren. A good compliment with an NA offer, that depends on their NA from a 3rd party…..And that 3rd party engine supplier who spreads cost across multiple manufacturers like GMA, Valkyrie, etc.

So the T33 will be a great fun car. Like the T50. Two data points on a chart. Ferrari meanwhile has roughly 10-100X data points historically. Two data points are not enough to judge success in a war. In a short term battle, maybe. In a war, no.

 

Who would think GMA will last another 30 years let alone 10. I don’t. Especially when Professor is not around. They want to build a campus of future mechanics around factory and they want to teach and grow to hire students. It is long shot and needs alot of money. This is one man vision and when that vision is gone, it is hard to pursue what it meant to be but change the plan or vision.

I admire GMA and what Professor did and does so far. But he is so brilliant and outlier, it is hard or dare I say impossible to find who will follow up from where he leaves behind.

I hope Rimac acquire GMA not Mclaren.

 

Yes Rimac would make a better home. Better capital structure for a better product line too.

I wonder what will happen with Cosworth. I don’t know much about them. They have been strong in race focused engines that need rebuilds. From what I know, the rebuild window is much shorter than a road car customer would agree to.

I agree with you that it’s a good vision. And probably good for growing the base of auto experience in the UK. A friend of mine did hear they will do

 

@gzachary Thoroughly enjoyable analysis, sir! First of all, let me say that your taste in cars is impeccable. I just thought that you also had various daily cars; other than Ferraris, I mean. The GMA cars are very specific/niche, for lack of better wordw. I, for one, am very curious to hear what you think of it once you have some decent time behind its wheel.

 

Thank you @REALZEUS for your compliment. It’s great to hear from you. I have a Taycan for “transportation” reasons. We have kids and need to go visit family and the Taycan fits 4. Need to quickly get in and run to market 5 minutes away in a parking lot. Or largely to go to/from San Francisco. Those are the only use cases. My experiences driving a Ferrari in SF are horrible. This is with driving and then parking in secured parking there. Numerous negative visual and vocal comments to me, a few made gestures with their hands that they were going to mark up/damage the car, and two yelled at me.

So these are the Taycan use cases. Wife drives a 1974 Ford Bronco. If anyone thinks modern cars pollute the earth, I will introduce them to the 1974 Bronco. It must produce 10x the pollution of all of our other cars added together.

Other than that, we are all Ferrari (9 cars now). My wife loves driving the Roma Spyder, so she is happy with my F acquisitions.

Also, @j09333 has a good point about Rimac as a better choice. Also, a very interesting idea that building and educating the group of experts will be great for the future of auto in
the UK. That’s the main reason I thought it would be McLaren.

I talked to one of the key GMA folk (not GM) about computer nannies vs just ABS. He doesn’t hate computer nannies. He thinks there is a market for people that want a pure driving experience that makes them feel they are driving the car. I am paraphrasing his statement but it went like this: “100% excitement of a B road mountain turn in Scotland. With proper execution feeling like victory and a mistake being disaster. The knife edge coming from the driver. That makes the driver feel like they are controlling something in this life.”

I found that whole statement very interesting. Notably, the last sentence was said with a tone of defeat.

 

The pleasure is all mine. Glad we get to chat again.

Totally disgusting and atrocious behaviour!!! I thought these things only happened in Europe.

Enjoy them in good health, mate!!!


PS: The 1974 Bronco must be your stable's highlight. The cheapest and oldest car, but the weirdest also. Amazing!!!

 

To their last statement- I think this is why cars are so appealing to so many, even more so now, because so much is already (attempted!) to be controlled for us.

What a bummer to get that kind of negative social reaction.