LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Wasn't a case of gave up. There clients would not have supported that move. That's like messing with the Holy Grail

 

Boo-hoo. Everything is going hybrid. The new Aventador will be an electrified, N/A V12.

 

You missed the context of my statement, Which is the here and non where Ferrari can still release an N/A V12 812 replacement within the next 12 - 24 months. but in 5 or 10 years time there would be no hope for that.

 

Could you elaborate on your conclusion that a LaF replacement won’t be announced in 2023. Thanks


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Hybrid is not ok !!!

 

You can already start by changing the title of the thread, everything is wrong

 

There are no offenders, it is unilaterally all about control...

Electric will fail to replace, give it time, gasoline engines will return, but will be several more years....

 

Yes, but we have already got used to that title
Any more info?
No matter how much $, but "when" and will it resemble a LMh? ( hahah, please God, no! )

 

So no V12 ?

 

hehe when talking openly I try not to show my tin hat too early on. I totally agree, sadly a lot of closed mined people are enabling this level of control to happen. This is part of the reason we are winding up our residents in New Zealand and moving, While I know the problem is everywhere. New Zealand is already lost in many respects.

Anyway.... Maybe it's time to rename the thread "La Ferrari Replacement Rumors"
V8/6 twin turbo, hybrid, Hopefully lighter than the La Ferrari

 

Probably V8/turbo/hybrid.... The SF90 already uses a 4L V8, so likely that same engine will be used (as I doubt they will increase its displacement), tweaks to achieve 850HP (from its 769HP in SF90), and then add 3 electric motors, carbon tub, it will weigh less than the SF90. But, without a V12, what's the point then? I believe it will be the first multi-million (base price) Ferrari ever without a V12, hmm...and the build-out will take years (because Ferrari takes a very long time to build out hybrids), what will Euro emission regulations do to interfere with this car I wonder (crash rules, automated attendants such as speed control, noise regulations, etc), I suspect it will be best that Ferrari can do, however, might look less exotic or will "try too hard" because of all the new rules disrupting the design.

 

I can actually live without the V12 in the Halo. For me I grew up in the 288 GTO and F40 era. These were the amazing machine that created what we have today (forgetting this forced hybrid crap of course). With that said the fact the 812 replacement is going to be the last front engine N/A V12, Ferrari's Holy Grail is heart breaking. As we will see the SF90 M/VS or what ever it will be called next year with increased hp. I am guess the Halo will be in the 1100 - 1200hp range.

 

Curious, after the F40 it took emissions regulations for Ferrari to re-introduce turbos (488 and downsized V8, I presume the 488 was originally to be a 4.8L V8...sad that never occurred), no apparent connection between those earlier models and the 488...

Imagine a halo with V8/turbo only, no hybrid, lightweight, 1200kg with all fluids, now that would be worthy of the title...

 

The only downside of hybridisation is the increased weight, but this is to be expected nowadays, when even F1 cars weigh circa 900 kg fully fueled and with the driver onboard. They were 650 kg 20 years ago. Other than that though, if done correctly, hybrids have many advantages. The performance is overall better. Just take a look at the LaFerrari vs the SP3 Daytona, which is basically a LaFerrari sans the hybrid/electric system. The 10 year old LaFerrari trounces the brand new SP3 in every metric.

It's quite amusing that you should mention two turbocharged cars, that you - and I for that matter - grew up with, and then go ballistic over new turbocharged/hybridised Ferraris.

Honestly, I could never afford a Ferrari hypercar, but what you are describing doesn't sound appealing to me, as an enthusiast. I could understand it if you proposed a N/A V12, but a turbo V8, sans electric assistance, is nothing more than a Pista/F8. If they make it a V8, I expect electric assistance to nudge close to 1200 CV, or more. If the forthcoming SF90 Stradale VS gets 1050-1100 CV, the hypercar will need to do much better to put some breathing space between itself and its lesser brethren.

 

[QUOTE It's quite amusing that you should mention two turbocharged cars, that you - and I for that matter - grew up with, and then go ballistic over new turbocharged/hybridised Ferraris.[/QUOTE]

Ballistic No.. Turbo no issues at all (Not sure about doing it to a V12 tho). Hybrid not a fan at the expense of weight etc or most importantly the loss of N/A ICE models. Then there is a lack well no sound Talk about ripping the soul and feel out. I think a Hybrid model from all manufacturers is a great way to develop the technology.
But give me a break on this Eco / climate change lie.
I don't have to like it even tho for the near future that is the reality..

As JTSE30 would agree a V8 TT super light weight, now that would be a great Halo model. F40 reimagined almost 40 years later.......

 

V10 NA with red line around 10500 rpm would be nice tribute to legends of F1
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As we expect, Ferrari developed the hybrid(electric motors) system for LMH car to a max of 272CV (limit put by FIA regulations), so if they will use it (used it) in La-"LaFerrari" (let's make some fun from Ferrari naming scheme ) it could be like ~830CV from twin turbo V8 which evolved from 4.0l SF90, + 270CV from electric motors , to a total of 1100 CV.

Using the aforementioned speculated values, the SF90 VS gets a bump of 50CV from the ICE engine so it gives 1050CV total power output.
Everything looks fine and plausible?

 

Some info is being scattered over a few threads on this forum, and not only on F-Chat. I couldn't initially even remember where I got it.
But here it is - use it at your discretion.

 

Yes, and that is huge problem. Modern Ferrari's are porkers, way way too heavy. With the advancements of technology, they should be able to build lighter supercars, not heavier ones. The extra weight badly affects handling.

And they were much more fun to drive 20 years ago.

The LaFerrari has a much better aero and weight distribution, plus it's more hardcore, that's why it trounces the SP3 Daytona which, btw, weighs just as much even without the electric engine.
Butif you were to put a normal LaFerrari against a LaFerrari that doesn't have the extra 200 kg of weight that comes from the electric engine + the wiring it requires, I'm willing to bet the one without the electric engine will be faster.

Not exactly. The hypercar will be much lighter than a Pista and with much more power.
Imagine a Pista that has an extra 2-300 HP and is at least 200 kg lighter.

This I agree with.

 

Thanks, I did hear a rumor that a FXXK EVO replacement based on the Ferrari Le Mons Hypercar may be announced next year, but it is only a rumor.


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Even though I'm not a very active member here, I still follow some threads on a daily basis. Before I start, I would like to say that, although I know some "well informed" people as some of you here at f-chat know, all I will write is not based on any inside information. It is purely an analysis of Ferrari products' marketing for the last 30 years. And it's been pretty accurate so far. Ferrari said the 296 was not a substitute for the F8, but, as we know, it was. When they launched the SF90 as a new top of the range, in my opinion, they decided to test the waters, to see how people would react having an 8-cylinder car as the top of the range. That's why the 812 is still around. The way I see, the hybrid 6-cylinder engine is the "new" 8-cylinder, and the hybrid 8-cylinder engine is the "new" 12-cylinder. I don't see a new 12-cylinder Berlinetta in the horizon... The Purossange took over the GTC/4 Lusso spot and its 12-cylinder is purely a maneuver to bring more interest for the car at launch. In the future, I believe it will have a hybrid V8 engine. The Roma/Portofino (or Roma spider) will eventually get a hybrid 6-cylinder instead of the 8-cylinder. This way the line-up is complete. The Icona will have one more car (I think in Berlinetta and Spyder versions). It will be the last of the 12-cylinder cars. Then, regarding the halo car, going all the way back to the 288 GTO. It was not supposed to be a halo car, it was intended for Group B, but, with its cancelation, Ferrari decided to market the car and capitalize on the investment already done. The F40 was, then, the first attempt to have a very special limited edition car. In terms of marketing, the top of the range was the Testarossa in 1987, a 12-cylinder mid-engine car. In order to make the F40 look very different from the Testarossa, the V8TT was adopted. Remember that in the 80's, to get extreme performance, you would go "turbo". It was a GTO development. In 95, the 550 Maranello was already ready to be launched (it was eventually delayed until 96 and the 512M came to fill the gap). So, a prestigious V12 mid-engine car layout was the perfect halo car, very different in concept from the, then, future 550. The F50 was born. Since then, the top of the line is a 12-cylinder front engine car (550, 575, 599, f12, 812) and the halo car (Enzo and LaFerrari) are 12-cylinder mid-engine cars. Now, with the SF90 sitting at the top, I find it hard for Ferrari to differentiate the new halo car with a mid-engine V8. I think they will go for a super advanced 6-cylinder. Or, who knows, maybe they will surprise us with a full electric car. That would be very different from the SF90 for sure...

 

Well thought out. It will be interesting to see. Difficult to understand a SF90 VS in 2023 and then what will be the hypercar engine when it is released in 2024. Seems like the hypercar will also have a TT hybrid while the SP4 (next Icona) uses a NA 12 with 10 more HP than the SP3.


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This was the point I made in the SF90 VS thread. Hard to see Ferrari coming out with a VS SF 90 when the hypercar may have essentially the same motor at the same time. Accordingly, I don't think there is an SF 90 VS. I believe the SF 90 mules we are seeing are for the next hypercar.

 

you have it all wrong