Triva question for the Daytona experts: What is the highest serial number on a Plexiglas-covered headlight Daytona? The strange case of Plexi #13987 got me looking into the literature. This may be one of the last plexi cars.
Highest plexis are often said to be in 141xx-142xx range. 14093-14103-14111 all confirmed, 14155 sometimes claimed to be the last, but I also have question marks with 14243 and 14245. 14233 is confirmed to be an early pop-up with silver painted nose panel. Best wishes, Kare
Here's what I have on file: s/n 14113 LHD Retractable Euro car (Daytona registry) s/n 14115 LHD Fixed Headlight Euro car, Originally imported to US (I owned it Jan 04-Dec 08) s/n 14117 RHD ??? s/n 14119 RHD Fixed Headlight (Daytona registry & SCM Web site) s/n 14121 RHD ??? s/n 14123 LHD ??? s/n 14125 Retractable - I believe I this one can be found on SCM web site, Scottsdale 1/24/1999 auction
Thanks for the info, gentlemen! If you guys are keepers of such information I can add: #13931 Plexi #14045 USA pop-up with silver panel #14085 USA pop-up with silver panel
I know of at least one pop up car converted to plexi after an accident, and vice versa. I wonder how often this happened
More than once as it was a cheaper way to go if you had a USA car that was built pre-September 1972. After that, the USA Daytona Chassis changed significantly (for the 5mph DOT rules that came into effect then) and it would have been much more costly to do. The more common thing you see is the early USA cars going from the "square" headlight openings to the later "radius" ones after an accident because that was the version sold as a spare part. Steve
Steve- The five mph bumper standard was delayed for two seat cars for one year and the Daytona never met that standard, and neither did the Dino 246 GT. There was no difference in the chassis for 1971-1973 US Daytonas or 1972-1973 US Dino 246 GTs. The five mph bumpers killed both after the 1973 model year, although Ferrari built 1973s as long as they could get away with it, and some were actually registered as 1974s. The 1974 Datsun 260Z is another 2 seat example, where the 240Z, unchanged for its first four years of production, required an enlarged engine due to the extra weight of 5 mph front and 2.5 mph rear bumpers and other crash standards. Another example is the 1973 Corvette, which still retained the non-crash worthy rear chrome bumpers of the 1968-1972 Corvettes, even though its nose had been changed to accomodate 5 mph front bumpers. The 1974 model had crash bumpers front and rear. The point on 13999 was that it was a very early flip-up headlight version. Plexi-headlight cars were built long after this very early US spec car. Marcel Massini has stated several flip-up headlight cars were converted to plexi headlight covers and vice versa, and not just because of accidents. Taz Terry Phillips
Terry, Not quite. While there was a DOT exemption for the 5mph bumper standard for two seat cars until March 1, 1974, Ferrari chose to try and meet the standards. I went through all this years ago with the DOT. I have detailed pictures showing exactly what Ferrari did to the Daytona chassis to meet the bumper regulations after September 1972 (this is also when the extended bumpers came in for the USA cars). I've also personally owned over 10 Daytonas from one in the first ten built to one of the very last ones built, Euro pop-up, Euro plexi-glass, early USA, late USA, and everything in between. I'll post the pictures of all the modifications when I get to my other computer. Also, I'll post all the chassis modifications for a factory Spyder vs. a factory Coupe. Steve
Oh, and yes, people converted a lot of Plexiglass cars to pop-up headlight cars for lots of reasons. Early on, you were supposed to do this if you wanted to import one to the US. Some people converted the plexiglass to the pop-up style becase the plexiglass cars headlights didnt' work very well at night (at least compared to the pop-up lights). Some people thought the pop-up headlights, or vice-versa, just looked better. Still other Owners I've talked to converted from the plexiglass to the pop-up styles because (at least at one time) there was a value difference in the pop-up vs. the plexiglass cars. And there are probably some other reasons I haven't heard. Crashing was just one of many reasons Owners made the change. Steve
Attached are two pictures of the "standard" front bumper support arrangement used on most Ferrari Daytonas, Coupes or Spyders, Euro or USA, Plexigalss or pop-up headlight. There are slight variations between the cars, which I'll document on another thread, but this is about the difference between the post-Sept 1972 USA cars and all the rest when it comes to the front and rear bumper treatments. Elsewhere on FerrariChat I posted pictures of the differences in the actual bumpers and bumper "strut" pieces that attach the bumper to the pictured support. In a thread I'll start on a 1973 USA Ferrari Daytona Spyder resotration, I'll post pictures of the other versions of the car so it easy to follow the evolution of the Daytona. I have about 10,000 pictures on Daytonas, so if you have a question, feel free to ask. Steve Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Attached are four pictures of the front bumper support treatment of a typical fall of 1972 through 1973 build date USA Daytona. As you can see, Ferrari added a large square brace (front and rear), extra square tubing from the chassis to the brace, extra gussets, etc. to make the front end stronger to resist impacts. They replicated this on the rear, and moved the trunk braces inboard, on the rear of these cars as well. In addition, the actual bumpers are reinforced on the backside and the struts are longer so the bumpers "stick out" about 1 1/2 inches. While I'm on this subject, let's correct a myth running around about USA cars having extended bumpers from the Euro cars, the pre-Fall 1972 build date USA cars do not. They use the same bumper, except for the attachment of the Euro reverse lights. Steve Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Steve- Thanks, had not realized the differences were that great. Look forward to future photos and threads. I really enjoyed my Daytona when I had it, although it was tough to horse around a parking lot. Amazing Ferrari, like some Mercedes S classes, were able to get such great steering feel at speed from a worm and roller system. Taz Terry Phillips
I may finally be able to answer the question I posed... Got a copy of the Branden & Rousch, "The Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona." It's probably the best book I've found on the Daytona. Appendix I lists all the serial numbers, prototypes, USA cars, competition cars and the like. 14115, 14243, 14245 are all USA pop-up cars. The last factory Plexi Daytona is most likely 14121. How many S1 Daytonas? My best estimate is there were a Total of 413 Plexi Daytonas produced.
The book sited above is known to have some mistakes. Carol Roush told me that Gerold was aware of them. I think she said that corrections may have been published somewhere. I hope to see her in a couple weeks at Cavallino. I'll post again here if I see her. Wonderful cars on open roads.
Finally, picturtes which suppoort a life long assertion! For decades, I have insisted-largely falling upon deaf ears-that LATE USA version spyders drive better, than do earlier iterations due to subtle, subtle frame additions made in the name/interest of DOT conformity issues. While these gussets/struts/added sheet metal additions represent no more than 1-200 pounds in weight, as far a s GVW is concerned, they are-and in conjunction with-the triangulated supports in the trunk for the bumpers{which "appear" to shield the fuel tanks}, also aid in adding a slight, yet perceptible, increase in chassis rigidity. Combined with the steel inner fender panels up front, the steel floor in the rear of the passenger campartment and Bulkhead, and MOST importantly the rocker inner box support additions....all combine to provide a significantly better driving/riding Spyder/Coupe..most not6iceable in spyders-which I make specific references to here.... Having had at least 2 early, and 2 late cars, in house, for most of the early to late part of the last decade, I can attest personally as to the not so subbtle differences in road manners and road handling capabilities. When really driving hard, the coupe is a much, much better driving car-AT SPEED, I must stress here, not, at "boulevard cruising" speeds... I would give a late car{spyder ONLY, hereA} a 250K value uptick to any potential buyer-that is how much I think the difference is...it;s that noticeable. One REALLy needs a side by side comparison, and the ability to drive the cars-spiritedly I might add-for at least 500-1000 miles in order to really come to agreement with this notion. My experience with racing cars(quite extensive, in fact...) has shown me that incredibly slight additions-in the correct geometric fashion-can increase immensely, the torsional rigidity of a tube frame. FWIW....
I have copies of the the original paper work from Chinetti on 14115. It's the last of its type and its the last LHD plexi car. Chinetti imported 14115, a euro spec plexi car and had it race converted at sport auto in late feb of 1971. It was imported in the summer of 71 and delivered to racer Gordon Tatum and was to be raced at sebring in 72. It never made it to the track, the car was seized by the sheriff in dec 71.
Kevan, my mistake. 14115 is listed as a Euro plexi. It may be the last LHD Plexi. (14117 is only listed as a Euro car.) 14115 Siezed by the sheriff? I hope he can let it go now. Grant, you have definately put your finger on the last Plexi: 14119. Good show! Many thanks to everyone for their help and information.
I've always wondered what the last Plexiglass car was, not counting the competition cars of course. It will be interesting to see if that sticks (14119 and 14121). That certainly would make things nice and neat. On many other items on Daytonas (updates to the timing chest, block, smog equipment, bumpers, etc.) did not transition very smoothly if you look at the VINs. There usually is some overlap. I had a pretty decent record of this sort of stuff on Daytonas until a mechanic one day decided to install SD2 software on my computer, before it was backed up, and wiped everything out. I don't think I had any record of a Plexiglass car later than 14119. Steve
