430 - Launch x4310 Slow Down Gear Flashing Solved | FerrariChat

430 Launch x4310 Slow Down Gear Flashing Solved

Discussion in '360/430' started by TheCook, Nov 3, 2020.

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  1. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    I've. been having issues with my F1 box dropping into neutral, third and fourth gear indicator flashing and the occasional skipped gear. Was going to get it looked at by a specialist and then man maths and the irresistible urge to fiddle kicked in and I figured it would cost less than the labour to buy a Launch x431 Mini Pro and do the work myself. There is so much (mis)information about F1 issues online that I figured I should get to grips with it myself. I'm glad I did - it's been very rewarding, and informative.

    So I use my F430 primarily for track and tours - not the wine-tasting type but proper fast driving tours with like minded friends. The car gets driven hard - with mechanical sympathy, but hard. I've taken out around 110kg, upgraded the suspension and brakes, and tuned to to over 500hp. Anyway, the last trip I did to Spain in July (yes just made it inside the lockdown window) was really hot, and while I had previously experienced the occasional F1 issue, I had enough of them in Spain that I knew I had to sort it before doing another trip or track day.

    Three primary issues; firstly dropping into neutral, most often when slowing down for a junction but in hot and fast Spain it was happening more regularly. F1 drops into neutral, steady red gearbox dash light, flashing amber Slow Down. Normally resolves in 15-30 seconds but when the car was realy hot I had to stop and let it cool down a bit. Secondly, flashing dash gear indicator - car would drive fine and it would disappear with another gear change. Finally, the occasional skipped gear - most often from 2nd to 5th or 4th to 6th.

    So I bought the Launch and started investigating. First step was to gather data. Clutch wear 38% (don't let anyone tell you tracking an F1 box wears the clutch, this car has 34,000 miles on and this is the original clutch). PIS is set at 5.9 (more on this in another thread, yes I had also read that it needs to be around 4.5 but certainly not for this car). F1 pump takes around 8 seconds for a full prime from cold, 2-3 seconds between intervals of 15 mins when the car is on but engine not running and around 4 mins when idling. When idling the pump kicks in at 40 bar and tops it up to 52 bar.

    Then I took it for a drive with the Launch graphing pressure, relay activation, gear selected, engine speed. Long story short, when shifting rapidly through the gears, and most obvious when selecting third or fourth, the pressure would drop a lot more than usual, to the extent that if the pressure was already low and I requested a couple gears in quick succession (or slowed for a junction and the F1 changed down itself), the pressure would drop as low as 30 bar, the box would drop into neutral and wait for the F1 pump to catch up while all the associated dash lights flashed away merrily. Skipping gears would happen at any time. So now I had some reference data.

    Next, onto the ramp and a full F1 fluid flush and bleed. Out for another drive - no change, exact same symptoms. So, no air in the pump, no air in the power block. However, a bleed using the nipples on the diff and the pump return does not bleed the the actuator so that was next. Diffuser off, rear undertray off, right side tailpipe off (I have the OEM sports exhaust), loosen right side cat so it can be pushed out the way. Then remove the heat shield and finally the actuator can be removed from the gearbox (NB make sure gearbox in neutral before starting this). Now the big moment - were the bleed screws loose? Yup - about an 8th of a turn, all three of them. Tighten those up, run the actuator bleed cycle (twice 'cos why not), put it all back together and run the actuator self learning cycle.

    By that stage it was too late to wake the neighbours so I impatiently waited to take the car out today. Sorted. Not a single Slow Down light, gearbox warning, drop to neutral or flashing gear indicator. The actuator is only pressurised during a gear change which is why the interval between pressurising at idle was fine. When the solenoids fired for a gear change fluid must have been escaping past the bleed screws to lower the system pressure rapidly enough to cause the issues.

    Slightly low pressure = gear shifts but potentiometer reads less than optimal actuator movement = flashing gear light.
    Pressure below minimum = TCU drops the gearbox into neutral as a safety measure = Slow Down and red gearbox dash light.
    The gear skipping is interesting so here's my theory. Changing up from 2nd to 3rd or from 4th to 5th requires the actuator to both rotate and push. This requires two of the solenoids in the power block to fire thus demanding more from the hydraulic system. I suspect that the leaking bleed screws in the actuator meant one of those actions didn't happen thus selecting the incorrect gear. The dash gear selection light will be correct - it just will move directly from 2nd to 5th for example.

    All sorted. All down to three loose bleed screws on the actuator. I had purchased a Selespeed accumulator as that was the next step in my plan but the fact that I wasn't losing pressure rapidly at idle made me suspect that the accumulator was fine. It will join the 'big cupboard of spares' n the garage. Hopefully this tread helps someone experiencing similar problems. Happy days.
     
  2. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2020
    1,280
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    dc
    Nice work. Did you put a dab or glue or anything on the bleed screws to keep them from getting loose again?
     
  3. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    No! I had seen that tip from Mark but forgot about it until it was all back together. No way I was going to take it apart again. Next time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    If you say the bleed screws were loose, does that mean it leaks fluid onto the floor ? Or does it allow fluid to return to the system, ie dry floor
     
  5. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    Dry floor. They bleed internally from the high pressure side of the system to the low.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    brogenville and Qavion like this.
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Considered buying a launch sometime, will wait until i an desperate. How easy to do the f1 flush using it ? Does it give you a procedure to follow ?
     
  7. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    Very easy if you don't suspect loose bleed screws and so don't need to remove the actuator. The standard F1 flush can be done with access from above the engine only. The Launch doesn't include any procedures but there are a couple decent videos on Youtube if you search 'Launch X431 F1 bleed'.
     
    milanojess likes this.
  8. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,624
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    You got it, good job.
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    I found 2, one was a quick flush of the header tank and the other was air flush of the e diff. Did not find one yet for the complete system. Both very good for what they covered
     
  10. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    4,209
    Will the launch access 355 ?
     
  11. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,212
    Santa Clarita, CA
    I used my Launch to flush the F1. There’s a You Tube video on how to do it.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  12. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    Just looked and the earliest model appears to be the 360, so no 355 coverage as far as I can tell.
     
  13. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    Just noticed I made an error in my original post. After finding that the three loose bleed screws behind the actuator were loose the procedure is to open all of them two full turns, then run the actuator bleed cycle, then tighten them up firmly. I missed out the bit about opening them two full turns in my original post.
     
  14. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    4,209
    Thanks for checking on this.
     
  15. jag-oo-r

    jag-oo-r Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2015
    423
    WOW! Excellent thread here! I've nothing to add right now, but I'm subscribing so I can return here and post my own results when I do the same.
    Very Cool guys! Thank You!
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Who did you but the launch from ? I believe some are not original so have to be careful. I am seeing then on Amazon @ £699- is that same as yours ? Might be early xmas present to myself
     
  17. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
    304
    Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Ian
    I bought mine off here https://www.launchx431.co.uk/ - £549 and arrived 3 days later.
     

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